Statto
Established Member
West Yorkshire PTE had Alexander body Metrobuses which didn't last long either, don't think any were kept by Yorkshire Rider.
West Yorkshire PTE had Alexander body Metrobuses which didn't last long either, don't think any were kept by Yorkshire Rider.
As I understand it these Metrobuses, along with a number of Olympians, were leased. Yorkshire Rider didn't take them on as it didn't want to saddle itself with huge leasing commitments. West Yorkshire PTE paid off the leases and sold the buses.
Then, Yorkshire Rider decided that it did want these buses after all and attempted to buy them, but were beaten to it by Kirby the dealers. The upshot of this was that Yorkshire Rider then had to buy buses which had originated on the other side of the Pennines (GM Standards) as replacements!
Lol that's quite amusing.
Leyland Titan[B15] was a strange one too, they lasted over 20 years in London, the PTEs that brought them got rid of them by d-reg[don't know if they were leased], main issue was was the time it took to build them, GMPTE had ordered 190 of the types but only 15 were ever built & delivered, West Midlands had 5 built from an order of 80, other operators simply cancelled the order, Merseyside PTE had ordered some, a demonstrator[0029] went on loan for a short period, but cancelled as it was taking so long to build them, ironically Merseyside PTE successor Merseybus brought a batch of 250 Titans from London, most went into service still in London Red[they still the London division insignia they where from on ] but with Merseybus stickers added, until they got refurbished at Merseybus Edge Lane works
It may have already been mentioned but Strathclyde's Buses Leyland Olympian LO47 (J136 FYS) was new in August 1991 and destroyed in the Larkfield Depot fire in May 1992.
GGPTEs fleet of 40 MCW Metropolitan Scanias were new in 1975 and withdrawn around 1980 due to major corrosion to the body and chassis. I think most operators who had the misfortune of purchasing these vehicles struggled to get more than 5 years service out of them.
I think the wheel trims are salvagable!Back in post #47 I mentioned the Borders Buses Optare MetroCity which was destroyed by fire when just over seven months old. Here's a photo of its remains - all gone bar the front end.
YJ17 FWU
YJ17FWU is seen at Jonathan Lloyd Commercial Salvage Ltd, Hixon, Staffordshire on 12/10/2018.flic.kr
As a class of vehicles the shortest working lives must surely be the Guy Wulfrunian, the Foden-NC decker, the Seddon Pennine RU and probably the Daimler Roadliner. As sub-classes perhaps also Daimler Fleetline single deckers due to structural issues.
As regards a specific bus, ignoring mishaps, accidents and fires, if anybody has access to LT fleet records of 1975 then please look up Daimler Fleetline DM952. It would have been new to Cricklewood in the summer as part of the two-man operated batch for the 16. I think it broke down within a couple of weeks, possibly gearbox failure (that batch had seriously dodgy gearboxes) and I don't think it ever ran again.
Crosville begrudgingly accepted 100 Seddon RUs and got rid of these mechanically challenged beasts at 10 years of age in 1980. Crosville did not want to be the NBCs guinea pig for a recently introduced Type- they wanted the trusty Bristol RE. The Gardner 6HLXB engines were transferred to Leyland Nationals by Crosville.This is what the excellent Ian's Bus Stop has to say about DM952:
DM 952 GHV 952N
9/74 new to Aldenham: 2/2DM3/3: Leyland O.680
9/74 SE change store (Stonebridge Park)
W (Cricklewood)
6/78 TC transfer (Croydon)
8/78 TH transfer (Thornton Heath)
10/78 TH repaint
79-81 TH
3/82 TH withdrawn..
3/82 CA ..into store (Clapham)
4/82 change store (AEC Southall)
8/82 change store (Ensignbus)
1/83 sold to Ensign Bus (Purfleet)
3/86 Cityrama bus fleet: used for 200, blue, white band
2/87 numbered 52
1989 Cityrama
*/89 withdrawn
by 12/92 sold
Seddon RUs weren't a great bus but operators mostly got ten to twelve years out of them. In the same vein as Liverpool 2017, North Western 276 came to a fiery end in 1969 when less than a year old - there's a pic at http://bcv.robsly.com/accident.html#kja276f
This is what the excellent Ian's Bus Stop has to say about DM952:
DM 952 GHV 952N
9/74 new to Aldenham: 2/2DM3/3: Leyland O.680
9/74 SE change store (Stonebridge Park)
W (Cricklewood)
6/78 TC transfer (Croydon)
8/78 TH transfer (Thornton Heath)
10/78 TH repaint
79-81 TH
3/82 TH withdrawn..
3/82 CA ..into store (Clapham)
4/82 change store (AEC Southall)
8/82 change store (Ensignbus)
1/83 sold to Ensign Bus (Purfleet)
3/86 Cityrama bus fleet: used for 200, blue, white band
2/87 numbered 52
1989 Cityrama
*/89 withdrawn
by 12/92 sold
Seddon RUs weren't a great bus but operators mostly got ten to twelve years out of them. In the same vein as Liverpool 2017, North Western 276 came to a fiery end in 1969 when less than a year old - there's a pic at http://bcv.robsly.com/accident.html#kja276f
This is what the excellent Ian's Bus Stop has to say about DM952:
DM 952 GHV 952N
9/74 new to Aldenham: 2/2DM3/3: Leyland O.680
9/74 SE change store (Stonebridge Park)
W (Cricklewood)
6/78 TC transfer (Croydon)
8/78 TH transfer (Thornton Heath)
10/78 TH repaint
79-81 TH
3/82 TH withdrawn..
3/82 CA ..into store (Clapham)
4/82 change store (AEC Southall)
8/82 change store (Ensignbus)
1/83 sold to Ensign Bus (Purfleet)
3/86 Cityrama bus fleet: used for 200, blue, white band
2/87 numbered 52
1989 Cityrama
*/89 withdrawn
by 12/92 sold
Seddon RUs weren't a great bus but operators mostly got ten to twelve years out of them. In the same vein as Liverpool 2017, North Western 276 came to a fiery end in 1969 when less than a year old - there's a pic at http://bcv.robsly.com/accident.html#kja276f
I stand corrected on DM952, I must have been dreaming it!This is what the excellent Ian's Bus Stop has to say about DM952:
DM 952 GHV 952N
9/74 new to Aldenham: 2/2DM3/3: Leyland O.680
9/74 SE change store (Stonebridge Park)
W (Cricklewood)
6/78 TC transfer (Croydon)
8/78 TH transfer (Thornton Heath)
10/78 TH repaint
79-81 TH
3/82 TH withdrawn..
3/82 CA ..into store (Clapham)
4/82 change store (AEC Southall)
8/82 change store (Ensignbus)
1/83 sold to Ensign Bus (Purfleet)
3/86 Cityrama bus fleet: used for 200, blue, white band
2/87 numbered 52
1989 Cityrama
*/89 withdrawn
by 12/92 sold
Seddon RUs weren't a great bus but operators mostly got ten to twelve years out of them. In the same vein as Liverpool 2017, North Western 276 came to a fiery end in 1969 when less than a year old - there's a pic at http://bcv.robsly.com/accident.html#kja276f
Never quite understood why the Leyland Panther was so unsuccesful. It had tried and trusted components and nothing too innovative. Some operators made them work and last, eg Preston, Chesterfield, but most got rid of them quite quickly, especially Panther Cubs.They Leyland Panther had a short life. Merseyside PTE withdrew half of the 110 ex Liverpool Panthers in 1975/76 after just 7 years. SELNEC got rid of all ex Manchester Panthers and Panther Cubs after 5-7 years . 20 of the Liverpool Panthers passed to Chesterfield Transport. The 22 ex Southport Panthers had fuller lives, but all had gone by 1981/82.
Another unlucky Liverpool single decker was Bristol RELL6G 2017, new in 1969 but written off less than a year later.
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Sadly the Roadliners were slightly before my time. I did travel on one when on loan to London Country but didn't appreciate the rarity or the sound effects these buses were supposed to have. I think their problem was a fundamental design fault with the engine which was designed for marine use, not constant stopping and starting.Darlington Corporation enjoyed the delights of both Roadliners and Seddon RUs.
Despite the fact that Cummins had an engine plant in the town, such were the problems with the Roadliners that they cancelled a second batch and bought Gardner engined single deck Fleetlines. They manfully tried to win the battle but they eventually went after 10-12 years (which was good for a Roadliner).
However, the Seddon RU was something that they managed to get on ok with. They had 8 and I think 7 of them lasted 16 years service before being sold for further service!
I didn't appreciate how distinctive the Darlington fleet was at the time..... I mean, didn't everyone run Ward Dalesmans!!!
V6 and V8 diesel engined buses have always failed. Cummins wasted their efforts for two decades until they settled on straight six cylinder engines. They are too noisy and probably that's why they've vanished from use. Fire engines are the last vehicles I recall with Perkins V8 diesels.I stand corrected on DM952, I must have been dreaming it!
DM931 was perhaps the one I was thinking of, this lasted 8 months in service on the 16 at Cricklewood.
I liked the Seddon RUs but I understand they had a design fault in the driveline which made them prone to breaking in a way that couldn't be redesigned,
Never quite understood why the Leyland Panther was so unsuccesful. It had tried and trusted components and nothing too innovative. Some operators made them work and last, eg Preston, Chesterfield, but most got rid of them quite quickly, especially Panther Cubs.
Sadly the Roadliners were slightly before my time. I did travel on one when on loan to London Country but didn't appreciate the rarity or the sound effects these buses were supposed to have. I think their problem was a fundamental design fault with the engine which was designed for marine use, not constant stopping and starting.
So how come virtually every American bus and coach since time began has had a V8 engine?V6 and V8 diesel engined buses have always failed. Cummins wasted their efforts for two decades until they settled on straight six cylinder engines. They are too noisy and probably that's why they've vanished from use. Fire engines are the last vehicles I recall with Perkins V8 diesels.
So how come virtually every American bus and coach since time began has had a V8 engine?
I wouldn't necessarily say they've been a failure. Our Dennis Lancets had the Perkins V8 and, while I agree they were noisy (nicely noisy, though!), they were decent enough buses. They were withdrawn because there were only six in a fleet that was still largely composed of Leyland Leopards and Tigers, but went on to lead lives with other operators.V6 and V8 diesel engined buses have always failed. Cummins wasted their efforts for two decades until they settled on straight six cylinder engines. They are too noisy and probably that's why they've vanished from use. Fire engines are the last vehicles I recall with Perkins V8 diesels.
Scania V8 buses were popular in the Alps in the 70's as 6 cylinder engines of the time weren't powerful enough.V6 and V8 diesel engined buses have always failed. Cummins wasted their efforts for two decades until they settled on straight six cylinder engines. They are too noisy and probably that's why they've vanished from use. Fire engines are the last vehicles I recall with Perkins V8 diesels.
The MAN buses from that period were why Stagecoach had a falling out with them. The same thing happened to the MAN powered Solo's; every time one failed, it was replaced with a Cummins unit. In fact, you'll find areas where older buses are still in front line service whilst MAN E300's from 2009 are in the training fleet despite only being 10-11 years old. And if my memory serves me correct, some have been scrapped.The MAN E300s in South Wales did not last long. They were 09 plates by 2012 some were replaced. The Stockton ones in 2014 ended up on loan in South Wales. The Man ones spent more time in the workshop than on the road. Some had to have Cummins engines.
because they're 2-strokes with blowers? Different idea altogetherSo how come virtually every American bus and coach since time began has had a V8 engine?
A lot of the MAN E300's have been scrapped (at least 25). Quite a few are in training fleets and lots of those in service have Cummins engines. The MAN engined ones are terribly unreliable, the buses here with Stagecoach Midlands have been out of service for over a year now, despite there being 04-reg Darts and Tridents still in service.The MAN buses from that period were why Stagecoach had a falling out with them. The same thing happened to the MAN powered Solo's; every time one failed, it was replaced with a Cummins unit. In fact, you'll find areas where older buses are still in front line service whilst MAN E300's from 2009 are in the training fleet despite only being 10-11 years old. And if my memory serves me correct, some have been scrapped.