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Carmont (near Stonehaven) derailment - 12 August 2020

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61653 HTAFC

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Sorry to be the one to raise this, but does anyone know the campaign organiser and if they have any contact with either of the families or are in liaison with ScotRail or similar?

On the face of it, to me it rings a few alarm bells, not least as the organiser is shown to be located in Blackpool (so not particularly local to the area of the incident) and the narrative is lacking and not entirely clear (surely if this was someone in the railway they would know it was "conductors'" and not "conduct's"...)

It may be above board, but I would suggest exercising caution if we don't know the authenticity - sadly these exceptional situations bring out people who may not have the best of intentions. Indeed, there were a few which popped up during the earlier stages of Covid/lockdown which were removed within a few days
Good point. I was going to donate but will await some sort of verification before I do so. There's always a chance that some scrotes will try to exploit a tragedy like this, sadly.

Though poor grammar and spelling alone isn't necessarily a red flag. Posts on this website show that there isn't any particular correlation between spelling/grammar and expertise or good intentions.
 
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DB

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There are no first class but is a buffet composite...

40622, 42007, 42564, 42145

The buffets in the Scotrail sets (406xx) are simply a first-class coach with a small servery / guard's area inserted at one end.
 

Crossover

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Good point. I was going to donate but will await some sort of verification before I do so. There's always a chance that some scrotes will try to exploit a tragedy like this, sadly.

Though poor grammar and spelling alone isn't necessarily a red flag. Posts on this website show that there isn't any particular correlation between spelling/grammar and expertise or good intentions.

Maybe its just me but the narrative feels generally a bit lacking in credibility generally with nothing being said about what links this organiser to the people they are purporting to support
 

Darandio

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Maybe its just me but the narrative feels generally a bit lacking in credibility generally with nothing being said about what links this organiser to the people they are purporting to support

Have you contacted them via the donation page?
 

Wilts Wanderer

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I must say the response message from the Netherlands is very decent of them, for what it’s worth. The railway family extends well beyond our national borders.
 

Dai Corner

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I must say the response message from the Netherlands is very decent of them, for what it’s worth. The railway family extends well beyond our national borders.

The Dutch railways hold the Scotrail franchise through their Abellio subsidiary, of course, so they are the operator of the train involved and the employer of the men who lost their lives.
 

Swanny200

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I must say the response message from the Netherlands is very decent of them, for what it’s worth. The railway family extends well beyond our national borders.

The only experience I have is of working on preserved railways but from dealing with people there whom a lot are railway workers themselves, you all do the same job regardless of what company and uniform you wear and it is generally a respectful community, you get the odd ribbing if you are from different depot's I have noticed and the odd comparison between carrying passengers and freight but when something like this happens, you all are as one community.

In terms of the donations page, is there maybe some sort of PR team at Scotrail that would be better setting up a page to donate to?
 

yorkie

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Have you contacted them via the donation page?
I concur; if anyone has any questions, please contact the organiser directly. If anyone is still concerned, please contact the forum moderation team, by reporting the original post (the "Report" button is on the bottom left corner, under each post) or by using the "Contact Us" form (which can be found at the bottom of every forum page).
 

Lucan

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The speculation contained within this thread does not dignify the severity of this incident.
I have seen nothing here that belittles the incident. I have been on a railway accident investigation myself and can assure you that the conclusion will not be influenced by any speculation either here or in the media.
Alarm raised at c. 9.31 a.m. Not sure who by, maybe the third (?) crew member, maybe a passenger, maybe a passer by seeing the smoke (?).
I read an account from a nearby farmer who saw the smoke. Maybe he was the first to raise the alarm.
I'm not sure a member of the public would think about walking to a signal box, I know I wouldn't. They wouldn't even know there was one there
I was surprised to learn there was a signalbox in this almost featureless section. Looking for it, I see what must be it, but I would have assumed it was out of use, because I thought such boxes usually had a name on them. It is easy to say from my keyboard, but I think would have walked/ran northwards along the line to stop any southbound train, as the signalman might be unaware at first that the southbound track was obstructed. I qualified as a driver, and think that protecting the train is an ingrained instinctive priority, at least in operating and engineering staff.

Here is a view of the signalbox, looking south. The road crossing serves only some farms, and the trailing crossover can be seen in the middle distance.

carmont.jpeg
 
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link1driver

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The only experience I have is of working on preserved railways but from dealing with people there whom a lot are railway workers themselves, you all do the same job regardless of what company and uniform you wear and it is generally a respectful community, you get the odd ribbing if you are from different depot's I have noticed and the odd comparison between carrying passengers and freight but when something like this happens, you all are as one community.

In terms of the donations page, is there maybe some sort of PR team at Scotrail that would be better setting up a page to donate to?
I know ASLEF are collecting donation internally, which is how I will contribute.
 

tiptoptaff

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I assume that is just standard procedure regardless of whether there is specific fault or not
Excuse my ignorance but would this be in case of any potential criminal negligence?
It's standard procedure for the police to investigate any incident that involves fatalities. The RAIB's role is to establish the cause of the accident and what can be learnt from it. They have no jurisdiction in terms of any prosecution that may arise from their findings of the cause.
 

156443

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heres The Sun’s take on yesterdays tragedy, absolute vile scumbags they are with a title like this.C407F646-5ACA-4F92-B624-6F07BDE72FAA.jpeg
 

Swanny200

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With the top of the screen being towards the signalbox (roughly 1km away) and the bottom towards the scene of the accident what is the tower? is it the GSM-R tower
 

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LowLevel

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Maybe its just me but the narrative feels generally a bit lacking in credibility generally with nothing being said about what links this organiser to the people they are purporting to support

I do believe it was set up by a member of staff from Northern
 

Swanny200

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With the top of the screen being towards the signalbox (roughly 1km away) and the bottom towards the scene of the accident what is the tower? is it the GSM-R tower
 

MarkyT

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I have seen nothing here that belittles the incident. I have been on a railway accident investigation myself and can assure you that the conclusion will not be influenced by any speculation either here or in the media.

I read an account from a nearby farmer who saw the smoke. Maybe he was the first to raise the alarm.

I was surprised to learn there was a signalbox in this almost featureless section. Looking for it, I see what must be it, but I would have assumed it was out of use, because I thought such boxes usually had a name on them. It is easy to say from my keyboard, but I think would have walked/ran northwards along the line to stop any southbound train, as the signalman might be unaware at first that the southbound track was obstructed. I qualified as a driver, and think that protecting the train is an ingrained instinctive priority, at least in operating and engineering staff.

Here is a view of the signalbox, looking south. The road crossing serves only some farms, and the trailing crossover can be seen in the middle distance.

View attachment 82171
Also surprised by the lack of a SB name board. Is that common in Scotland? That particular box has survived in an AB area no doubt partly because of the presence of the level crossing, the road of which, although 'only' serving a series of farms, is still a public highway. It would have been impossible to convert to AHBC here because of the adjacent T-junction arrangement. Remote control and CCTV supervision from Stonehaven could have been an option but workload issues there might be problematic, and if the protecting signals were still required to be block signals for traffic purposes then continuous train detection would be required throughout which can be expensive with multisection track circuits although is easier today for long sections using axle counters.
 

py_megapixel

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heres The Sun’s take on yesterdays tragedy, absolute vile scumbags they are with a title like this.
Agreed. That’s not a nice turn of phrase at all.
And it isn't the first time that this particular newspaper has reported on a fatal distaster with an insensitive and entirely misleading headlines. Absolutely disgusting.

As always, thoughts lie with the victims and their families. Truly awful.

Is the line through Stonehaven still closed for investigations?
 
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Swanny200

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There are more than just farms along that road, I used to have a relative living in one of the cottages down there which are still there at least 3 or 4 of them there
 

monstoor

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And it isn't the first time that this particular newspaper has reported on a fatal distaster with an insensitive and entirely misleading headlines. Absolutely disgusting.

As always, thoughts lie with the victims and their families. Truly awful.

Is the line through Stonehaven still closed for investigations?

I remember in 2001 when The Mirror newspaper wrote a headline piece stating the sleep-deprived driver was not responsible for the Selby crash.
 
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