USA response to Covid-19 and face masks

Cdd89 · 11 Aug 2021

I thought I would dig up this thread in the wake of the CDC's new guidance (as of two weeks ago) to mandate masking indoors even for the vaccinated, in areas with 'substantial' transmission (over 50 cases/100k).

This is equivalent to 500 cases/1m, so according to Worldometers' Weekly Trends table, the CDC's advice would apply to the average of almost every country in the world. (The UK is presently at 2844/1m).

At this stage I would be amazed if the federal mandate for masking on transportation is not extended. More concerningly, I don't see the exit strategy from masking since, with endemic transmission of Delta, 500/1m seems like an unattainably low case rate and certainly not a sustainable one.

For masks to end, the CDC would need to walk back on its advice, or local governments and businesses would need to act in contravention of the CDC's guidance. I don't see the former happening until the unvaccinated gain immunity and stop adding to the death statistics over there, which could take quite a long time; and I don't see the latter happening due to the way masks have become politicised over there (which is increasingly the case over here, too).

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initiation · 11 Aug 2021

It's good to see some of the Southern and Mid-western states standing firm on this rubbish. However many locktavists are claiming (or at least trying to insuate) that the rise in cases in Florida et al are due to their laissez faire approach to restrictons....ignoring the fact that 1) they removed restrictions months and months ago and 2) other states are seeing the same rise.
Hospitalisations will depend much more on the vaccination rate (generally slightly lower than the UK particularly in older groups) rather than who bans eating inside a restaurant or wearing a mask on a bus.

initiation · 16 Sep 2021

Apart from Australia it seems the US is also trying to go full on crazy with:

Biden recently announcing attempts at a federal level to introduce mandatory vaccination for many people.
The Governer of New York mandating that all children age 2+ have to wear masks when under child care.
Pfizer in the US seeking approval for their vaccination to be given to infants age 6 months+

I'm glad that many states are holding out on these measures - it's crazy to think that several have had no statewide restrictions for the best part of a year.

duncanp · 16 Sep 2021

initiation said:
Apart from Australia it seems the US is also trying to go full on crazy with:

Biden recently announcing attempts at a federal level to introduce mandatory vaccination for many people.

The Governer of New York mandating that all children age 2+ have to wear masks when under child care.

Pfizer in the US seeking approval for their vaccination to be given to infants age 6 mont

I'm glad that many states are holding out on these measures - it's crazy to think that several have had no statewide restrictions for the best part of a year.

There is a lot of angst about masks in the United States.

I was looking at the Trip Advisor New York forum, and someone on there was complaining that they don't "..feel safe..." dining indoors because "..people aren't wearing masks..."

Well how exactly are people supposed to eat and drink if they are wearing these wretched face nappies then?

The same person was then complaining that they can't use the toilet inside the restaurant because it would mean having to walk past all these unmasked people.

The actual risk of catching something from an unmasked person sitting at a restaurant table is minimal, especially if you don't linger and walk straight past them on the way to the toilet.

The fact that people are thinking these thoughts though shows how neurotic and mentally damaged we have become.

How many more times do you have to point out to someone that "feeling safe" and "being safe" are not necessarily the same thing.

It is not good to keep people in a state of perpetual anxiety when their fears are out of all proportion to reality.

The Ham · 16 Sep 2021

initiation said:
Apart from Australia it seems the US is also trying to go full on crazy with:

Biden recently announcing attempts at a federal level to introduce mandatory vaccination for many people.

The Governer of New York mandating that all children age 2+ have to wear masks when under child care.

Pfizer in the US seeking approval for their vaccination to be given to infants age 6 months+

I'm glad that many states are holding out on these measures - it's crazy to think that several have had no statewide restrictions for the best part of a year.

The first is at face value could be seen as a rational thing to do, although often mandating vaccines doesn't aid in their uptake overly much.

I agree that the second is out there crazy, as the level of protection compared to vaccine protection is very low at best.

I'm at a loss as to why a drug company looking to gain approval to give their vaccines to more people is so controversial (please note that this is different to the USA approving it and also very different to it being rolled out).

ExRes · 16 Sep 2021

Can't help laughing at comments about New York, did anyone watch the US Open tennis last week? hardly a spectator wearing a mask to be seen in the packed seating areas around the courts, about the only people wearing them were the representatives of US Tennis who were, presumably, under orders to do so

Freightmaster · 16 Sep 2021

duncanp said:
I was looking at the Trip Advisor New York forum, and someone on there was complaining that they don't "..feel safe..." dining indoors because "..people aren't wearing masks..."

Well how exactly are people supposed to eat and drink if they are wearing these wretched face nappies then?

The same person was then complaining that they can't use the toilet inside the restaurant because it would mean having to walk past all these unmasked people.

Fear and Loathing in ~~Las Vegas~~ New York... :rolleyes:

MARK

Busaholic · 16 Sep 2021

Freightmaster said:
Fear and Loathing in ~~Las Vegas~~ New York...

MARK

Can't imagine Hunter S. Thompson being a big fan of the mask.

island · 16 Sep 2021

Unfortunately the USA seems to be afflicted by the nonsense logic of

Cases go up: better wear masks so they don’t go up more
Cases go down: looks like masks are working, better keep wearing them

yorkie · 17 Sep 2021

The USA is a good example of how ineffective flimsy masks are, as well as how dangerous the mask obsessive people are, with their insurance that very young children wear masks

This shows how important it is that we push back against masks. I'm glad my workplace is a 99% mask free environment and I very much hope it stays that way.

Biden is a dangerous individual. Not as bad as Trump obviously but he appears to be deranged, demented and untrustworthy. He had said masks would be required for "just 100 days" but that period ended well over 100 days ago.

Masks are a distraction from what really matters which is vaccinations.

It's all pure virtue signalling and authoritarianism.

If it was really about stopping transmission, a flimsy ineffective masks would not comply with the mandate.

An effective FFP2/3 mask would reduce transmission and actually protect the wearer, so those who refuse to believe in the vaccines being effective can choose to wear them if they want. Problem solved.

Except as we all know, it's all about political posturing and showing which side you are on; those who claim it's about "being safe" are being disingenuous. Sturgeon and her ilk are similar to Biden in this area.

It's time we all pushed back against this absolute nonsense. Enough is enough. Flimsy masks are symbols of vaccine distrust, authoritarianism, and political dogma.

The Ham · 17 Sep 2021

yorkie said:
The USA is a good example of how ineffective flimsy masks are, as well as how dangerous the mask obsessive people are, with their insurance that very young children wear masks

This shows how important it is that we push back against masks. I'm glad my workplace is a 99% mask free environment and I very much hope it stays that way.

Boden is a dangerous individual. Not as bad as Trump obviously but he appears to be deranged, demented and untrustworthy. He had said masks would be required for "just 100 days" but that period ended well over 100 days ago.

Masks are a distraction from what really matters which is vaccinations.

It's all pure virtue signalling and authoritariansim.

If it was really about stopping transmission, a flimsy ineffective masks would not comply with the mandate.

An effective FFP2/3 mask would reduce transmission and actually protect the wearer, so those who refuse to believe in the vaccines being effective can choose to wear them if they want. Problem solved.

Except as we all know, it's all about political posturing and showing which side you are on; those who claim it's about "being safe" are being disingenuous. Sturgeon and her ilk are similar to Biden in this area.

It's time we all pushed back against this absolute nonsense. Enough is enough. Flimsy masks are symbols of vaccine distrust, authoritarianism, and political dogma.

Given that a lot of anti vaccine people tend to sit on the other political wing to whoever is in power the best thing Boden could say is "we've decided that we'll not support any more vaccines from the end of this year with a vote on the issue on the 15th December and so advise anyone with a vaccine after that time to wear a mask, given the latest scientific evidence only FFP3 masks will count."

It's then likely that Republicans will then shout about how it was them that brought in the vaccine and that their supporters should get the vaccine before Big Government takes it away from them.

Boden then appears to reverse his decision on it a few days before the vote (by which point many will at least have had their first dose).

AlterEgo · 17 Sep 2021

The Governor of New York state has said that state-endorsed childcare facilities will now require children aged two and older to wear a mask. You could not make it up. It's insane. They don't work!

3rd rail land · 17 Sep 2021

AlterEgo said:
The Governor of New York state has said that state-endorsed childcare facilities will now require children aged two and older to wear a mask. You could not make it up. It's insane. They don't work!

Who is expected to enforce this rule when the kids refuse to wear masks? I imagine many kids will throw a tantrum if anyone tries to get them to wear a mask. It's not like a child that young could possibly understand why masks are being mandated.

Highlandspring · 17 Sep 2021

3rd rail land said:
Who is expected to enforce this rule when the kids refuse to wear masks? I imagine many kids will throw a tantrum if anyone tries to get them to wear a mask. It's not like a child that young could possibly understand why masks are being mandated.

As it’s the Land of The Free™ we are talking about here presumably the police will be called and bullets will fly if compliance isn’t instant and supplicating.

Bikeman78 · 17 Sep 2021

3rd rail land said:
Who is expected to enforce this rule when the kids refuse to wear masks? I imagine many kids will throw a tantrum if anyone tries to get them to wear a mask. It's not like a child that young could possibly understand why masks are being mandated.

It's hilarious isn't it. The idea that a two or three year old will keep a mask on for more than a few minutes. When my son was two I had enough trouble getting him to keep his shoes on if he was in his buggy!

DustyBin · 17 Sep 2021

AlterEgo said:
The Governor of New York state has said that state-endorsed childcare facilities will now require children aged two and older to wear a mask. You could not make it up. It's insane. They don't work!

Some of the reports coming out of other countries regarding restrictions are very disturbing. At times I'm not even sure whether to believe them! Some places appear to have completely lost the plot....

LAX54 · 17 Sep 2021

DustyBin said:
Some of the reports coming out of other countries regarding restrictions are very disturbing. At times I'm not even sure whether to believe them! Some places appear to have completely lost the plot....

At the very beginning, no one knew anything abut this virus, so advising the use of masks seemed logical, 2 years on, we know a lot more, and the fact that really masks are not that effective,, but it seems everyone in charge is scared to now say so.....I assume they think they will get it in the neck for saying we must wear them from Day 1 ?

DustyBin · 17 Sep 2021

LAX54 said:
At the very beginning, no one knew anything abut this virus, so advising the use of masks seemed logical, 2 years on, we know a lot more, and the fact that really masks are not that effective,, but it seems everyone in charge is scared to now say so.....I assume they think they will get it in the neck for saying we must wear them from Day 1 ?

I really don't see how at this stage they could possibly admit that masks are ineffective; as you say the loss of face and credibility would be unpalatable. The question is, does the same apply to anything else?

island · 17 Sep 2021

Bikeman78 said:
It's hilarious isn't it. The idea that a two or three year old will keep a mask on for more than a few minutes. When my son was two I had enough trouble getting him to keep his shoes on if he was in his buggy!

They also require ages 2+ to wear masks on any flight to, from, or within the country.

Bikeman78 · 17 Sep 2021

island said:
They also require ages 2+ to wear masks on any flight to, from, or within the country.

Yes I've seen a headline about a family getting kicked off a flight because their two year old wouldn't wear a mask. In fact I think the flight ended up being cancelled.

Highlandspring · 17 Sep 2021

Bikeman78 said:
Yes I've seen a headline about a family getting kicked off a flight because their two year old wouldn't wear a mask. In fact I think the flight ended up being cancelled.

If this was the American Airlines Dallas to Colorado flight earlier this week then the two year old in question was removed from the plane by a group of three armed police. This is the world we live in now.

Freightmaster · 17 Sep 2021

Highlandspring said:
If this was the American Airlines Dallas to Colorado flight earlier this week then the two year old in question was removed from the plane by a group of three armed police. This is the world we live in now.

Makes the Starcross ferry's attitude look fair and proportionate!

MARK

scotrail158713 · 17 Sep 2021

AlterEgo said:
The Governor of New York state has said that state-endorsed childcare facilities will now require children aged two and older to wear a mask. You could not make it up. It's insane. They don't work!

Surely that's ridiculously dangerous from a child welfare point of view as well? Any 2 year old child now has only had approximately 6 months of "normal" life pre-covid. Nobody really remembers anything from that point in their life, so if they're not careful then an ever growing number of children will have masked faces conditioned as normal in their minds, as it's all they know. That can't be the path that New York wants to go down, does it?

Highlandspring · 17 Sep 2021

scotrail158713 said:
Surely that's ridiculously dangerous from a child welfare point of view as well? Any 2 year old child now has only had approximately 6 months of "normal" life pre-covid. Nobody really remembers anything from that point in their life, so if they're not careful then an ever growing number of children will have masked faces conditioned as normal in their minds, as it's all they know. That can't be the path that New York wants to go down, does it?

I’m far from a conspiracy theorist but I’m sure it would be far easier to get the population to comply with mandatory masks in future if a good proportion of them have been conditioned from birth (more or less) to accept them as entirely normal….

scotrail158713 · 17 Sep 2021

Highlandspring said:
I’m far from a conspiracy theorist but I’m sure it would be far easier to get the population to comply with mandatory masks in future if a good proportion of them have been conditioned from birth (more or less) to accept them as entirely normal….

I'd never call myself a conspiracy theorist either, but there's definitely more stuff like that that doesn't seem so unrealistic anymore.

yorkie · 17 Sep 2021

Freightmaster said:
Makes the Starcross ferry's attitude look fair and proportionate!

I think the response of the Starcross ferry staff and their mates would be more likely to result in the passengers being the ones calling the police.

scotrail158713 said:
Surely that's ridiculously dangerous from a child welfare point of view as well? Any 2 year old child now has only had approximately 6 months of "normal" life pre-covid. Nobody really remembers anything from that point in their life, so

It could affect their development; it's highly irresponsible.

scotrail158713 said:
if they're not careful then an ever growing number of children will have masked faces conditioned as normal in their minds, as it's all they know. That can't be the path that New York wants to go down, does it?

Masks are highly symbolic and are part of a new culture war, so actually it probably is a path they want to go down.

DustyBin · 17 Sep 2021

scotrail158713 said:
Surely that's ridiculously dangerous from a child welfare point of view as well? Any 2 year old child now has only had approximately 6 months of "normal" life pre-covid. Nobody really remembers anything from that point in their life, so if they're not careful then an ever growing number of children will have masked faces conditioned as normal in their minds, as it's all they know. That can't be the path that New York wants to go down, does it?

My two (and a bit) year old niece is living proof of the damage being done to early years development. She's spent most of her life unable to socialise normally and it shows. Apparently the parents of other children at her nursery are saying the same thing. It's completely wrong but nobody wants to talk about it....

yorkie · 17 Sep 2021

DustyBin said:
My two (and a bit) year old niece is living proof of the damage being done to early years development. She's spent most of her life unable to socialise normally and it shows. Apparently the parents of other children at her nursery are saying the same thing. It's completely wrong but nobody wants to talk about it....

And that's in the UK where masks aren't mandated? It must be horrendous for families in the USA

DustyBin · 17 Sep 2021

yorkie said:
And that's in the UK where masks aren't mandated? It must be horrendous for families in the USA

Yes, imagine spending your early years being conditioned to view other humans as walking biohazards. It's difficult to know what exactly this will do to them, but it won't be good.

Bacon_BMW · 17 Sep 2021

DustyBin said:
My two (and a bit) year old niece is living proof of the damage being done to early years development. She's spent most of her life unable to socialise normally and it shows. Apparently the parents of other children at her nursery are saying the same thing. It's completely wrong but nobody wants to talk about it....

I helped out a summer camp this past June where masks were optional for this exact reason. There was a very noticeable difference between the kids who‘s parents forced them to wear a mask and those who did not when it came to sociability and behavior. It also seemed as if the kids who did wear a mask had no clue why they were doing it—they’ve just grown up thinking that people wears masks and it is odd when people don’t.

USA response to Covid-19 and face masks

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