Misused railcard.

Hello, appreciate any advice thanks. My sons girlfriend has been caught using a 16 to 25 railcard whilst commuting to work.. Journey entails travelling from Whitchurch (Shropshire) to Shrewsbury.
Offence is using railcard before 10am. I’m not sure if it’s tfw, but they have looked at previous transactions and can see a further 19 journeys have been made.
She has admitted it was her error and that she’d not done this on purpose but had bought the ticket through the trainline app.
Any help on what to put in email back.
Thanks.

1874 said:

Hello, appreciate any advice thanks. My sons girlfriend has been caught using a 16 to 25 railcard whilst commuting to work.. Journey entails travelling from Whitchurch (Shropshire) to Shrewsbury.
Offence is using railcard before 10am. I’m not sure if it’s tfw, but they have looked at previous transactions and can see a further 19 journeys have been made.
She has admitted it was her error and that she’d not done this on purpose but had bought the ticket through the trainline app.
Any help on what to put in email back.
Thanks.

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What type of ticket did they purchase? I ask, as if it was an 'advance' ticket then the 10am rule does not apply.

@1874. Is it possible to upload a pic of the letter that's been received, with any name and address and case reference number details all suitably obscured?

800Travel said:

What type of ticket did they purchase? I ask, as if it was an 'advance' ticket then the 10am rule does not apply.

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Having a look on the LNER site - In order to get a railcard discount, they would have had to select a different train under the itinerary. Unless they had an advance

Here are the screen shots of the first email

Received this 5 minutes ago

Sorry for messed up emai screen shots I’m not tech savvy. But this is the jist of what’s happenin.. She has replied to first email, admitting her mistake and got the last screen shot back. Could it be that tfw will just accept payment of journeys in full. If so I think she has got a bit of a result, and a lesson learnt.
thanks.

It certainly sounds as though TfW are open to a settlement, on receipt of a very apologetic letter,a promise to ensure that the correct fare is purchased in future, and gratitude should an offer of settlement be made.

How the calculation is derived may vary though. At worst it could be two anytime single fares for each return journey, with no offset for the fare paid. Plus an administrative cost of around £150 - maybe slightly more given the investigation they have done.

However we do see calculations which are more favourable to the person under the spotlight, such as using the appropriate return fare and offsetting the fare paid - it can make a big difference which is chosen. Once offered it will need to be paid quickly - typically within 14 days to avoid the matter escalating to court action.

Thanks so much for reply, I’m sure she will we glad with this outcome..

1874 said:

Thanks so much for reply, I’m sure she will we glad with this outcome..

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Do share a draft on here, and we can check that the tone is appropriate - best that it is based on their own words rather than AI generated as those stick out like a sore thumb when shared here.

And really, whilst we understand your desire to help, your son’s girlfriend should be the one writing a first draft - even if that then needs a bit more polish.

There's an argument that the default position is that only the difference in fare needs to be paid on board when the only problem with a ticket is the minimum fare - only when there's evidence the passenger knew this but continued doing the same thing might it turn into a prosecution matter (and even that is a matter for debate). The staff you meet on your journey can only address the journey being undertaken at the time, so would report it so they can attempt to reclaim any previous underpayments too, and everyone reported gets a scary letter to try to make sure they respond!

Welcome to the forum!

Tickets discounted with a 16-25 Railcard are subject to a minimum fare of £12 (after discount) on weekdays before 10am (minimum fare doesn't apply in July or August) and so technically your son's grilfriend has been using an invalid ticket which is a criminal offence.

It seems that TfW are open to an out of court settlement. I would write a short, concise reply that mentions the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

It might also help if she can say that she has researched her online ticket purchasing account and can confirm that she agrees with TfW's assessment of the number of times she's used an incorrect ticket.

If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fares, although this can vary. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one. Also be aware that a settlement will need to be paid in full within a few days of it being offered.

Do post up a draft of your reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Thanks for all replies, will forward all your answers to sons girlfriend.
Thanks again

As the person concerned was commuting to work had they purchased an anytime day return priced at £13.60 this would have been reduced to £8.95 with their railcard And could be used before 10.00 am

njr001 said:

As the person concerned was commuting to work had they purchased an anytime day return priced at £13.60 this would have been reduced to £8.95 with their railcard And could be used before 10.00 am

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16-25 Railcard discounted fares are subject to a minimum discounted fare of £12 on Mondays to Fridays if used before 10am. The minimum fare also doesn't apply to Advance tickets but this isn't relevant in this case.

So, noting that the tickets were purchased online through Trainline, the person concerned likely selected the cheaper £8.95 fare using a journey planner (which would presumably have only offered a 16-25 Railcard discounted "Anytime" day return fare for a journey from Whitchurch *after* 10 a.m.), and then used the ticket to travel into Shrewsbury on a train *before* 10 a.m. And has allegedly done similar on multiple other occasions?

Yes Mcr warrior I think she has done just that.

We've discussed this before and one of the problems is that the railway persists in failing to display the intended 10am restriction on a ticket that clearly implies through its name that it can be used at any time. It's possible a court would rule that the 10am usage restriction was unenforceable in such circumstances but it could be highly specific to the precise sales process for that consumer - what information was shown and acknowledged by the purchaser and how prominently this restriction was displayed. If it wasn't shown at all, or buried in small print, when a user selects a journey after 10am then the process is clearly flawed and the passenger might be able to argue the ticket is valid contractually before 10am without any further payment.

furlong said:

We've discussed this before and one of the problems is that the railway persists in failing to display the intended 10am restriction on a ticket that clearly implies through its name that it can be used at any time. It's possible a court would rule that the 10am usage restriction was unenforceable in such circumstances but it could be highly specific to the precise sales process for that consumer - what information was shown and acknowledged by the purchaser and how prominently this restriction was displayed. If it wasn't shown at all, or buried in small print, when a user selects a journey after 10am then the process is clearly flawed and the passenger might be able to argue the ticket is valid contractually before 10am without any further payment.

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Couldn't it be argued that, when buying your Railcard, it clearly states that there's a £12 minimum fare before 10am?

Tevion539 said:

Couldn't it be argued that, when buying your Railcard, it clearly states that there's a £12 minimum fare before 10am?

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Of course it could.