JW4
Member
In the December 2022 re-write there was supposed to be hourly Liverpools stopping at Lichfield and Tamworth from December 2023, so this would be one of them except that it calls at Stafford.
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June 2024 Timetable Change
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No changes to Newcastle – Doncaster – Reading yet; in another thread I think it was mentioned that they will go back to hourly, but I can't remember if that was meant to be this December or next year, or if the two-hourly Southampton services will come back.
Jamesrob637
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I guess Manchester is quite lucky in that it has all of its direct Bristol services back since last year.
dk1
Veteran Member
I thought it was December as was when XC would resume hourly services at Stansted Airport too.
HamworthyGoods
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Summer 2025.
mangyiscute
Established Member
Well this summer will be very interesting on XC Reading to Manchester services if they run a 4/5 car train every hour - there is no chance it copes.
swt_passenger
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It’s definitely not for this timetable, as others have said it’s to be hourly for “most of the day” from May 2025. 12 extra services per weekday, presumably 6 returns.
However I’d also add that there is no mention of Southampton extensions in the track access application.
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mangyiscute
Established Member
In fairness the bit south of Reading isn't always the busiest - for sure there are times that it could do with more capacity but that's even more true for the rest of the XC network.
I guess there would be no way of terminating trains at Basingstoke? Cause then it would be just one change onto a fast train going to the rest of the network towards Bournemouth - one of the main issues currently is that there's no point using one of these trains to Reading if trying to go further south since the Reading to Basingstoke trains are slow and only half hourly.
I guess there would be no way of terminating trains at Basingstoke? Cause then it would be just one change onto a fast train going to the rest of the network towards Bournemouth - one of the main issues currently is that there's no point using one of these trains to Reading if trying to go further south since the Reading to Basingstoke trains are slow and only half hourly.
Thankfully the missing services have appeared tonight, no change from the current timetable.
Pre-Operation Princess, over 22 years ago, loco-hauled services with 6 or 7 coaches ran hourly between Reading & Birmingham (I'm not suggesting these trains were frequently rammed, but they were well used).
A 4 car Voyager has fewer seats than 3 Mark III coaches, so in the absence of double sets being deployed this continues to be a massive reduction in service provision.
dk1
Veteran Member
But didn’t they run half-hourly (Newcastle-Reading/Manchester-Bournemouth) so minimum 8 coaches per hour?
It looks like the paths for the Camp Hill stoppers have been added as ECS.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains | 5E19 1057 Birmingham New Street to Kings Norton | 03/06/2024
Real-time train running information for 5E19 1057 departure from Birmingham New Street to Kings Norton on 03/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
james60059
Member
CrossCountry's 1L34 09:22 Birmingham New Street - Stansted Airport and 1N57 13:27 Stansted Airport - Birmingham New Street still as a Q path.
Don't think this has ran since early 2020
Don't think this has ran since early 2020
The loss of through services from Hull to Manchester is one of the most eye opening changes I've spotted. I don't remember a time when Hull has ever had no direct service to Manchester and it feels like a very retrograde step. Does also slightly undermine the claims about "improvements" from June...
EDIT - on further inspection, I might have jumped the gun somewhat, and it looks like this might be a time limited thing (linked to engineering works for the TRU?).
EDIT - on further inspection, I might have jumped the gun somewhat, and it looks like this might be a time limited thing (linked to engineering works for the TRU?).
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dk1
Veteran Member
CrossCountry's 1L34 09:22 Birmingham New Street - Stansted Airport and 1N57 13:27 Stansted Airport - Birmingham New Street still as a Q path.
Don't think this has ran since early 2020
XC seem to have been awful on this route at training & returning to a normal service.
danbarjon
Member
Could it have something to do with training Hull driver's on the 802s?
It looks like the Newcastle – Middlesbrough extra services are timed to start serving Hartlepool from the timetable change; I can't see any other changes affecting Middlesbrough. The King's Cross to Middlesbrough still leaves the former at 15:27, although at least it's well-timed to provide extra capacity for York to Middlesbrough, I suppose.
The Planner
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They were there already.It looks like the paths for the Camp Hill stoppers have been added as ECS.
Realtime Trains | 5E19 1057 Birmingham New Street to Kings Norton | 03/06/2024
Real-time train running information for 5E19 1057 departure from Birmingham New Street to Kings Norton on 03/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
CrossCountry's 1L34 09:22 Birmingham New Street - Stansted Airport and 1N57 13:27 Stansted Airport - Birmingham New Street still as a Q path.
Don't think this has ran since early 2020
Which is particularly poor for Melton Mowbray, Oakham and Stamford, which have a two hour gap in service as a result. At least the two segments on either end have some alternatives, but this is really rubbish for those between Leicester and Peterborough.
Loadings on the Birmingham-Cambridge/Stansted did seem to take longer to recover post-2020 than on many other routes - at least at the Cambridge end - but they do appear to have been more-or-less 'back to normal' for some time now, and not running this service for almost 5 years (assuming it doesn't come back until at least December 2024) seems more than a bit ridiculous.
TPE via Castleford 4 additional services by the looks (times departing Castleford)
07:25 Manchester
08:14 York
09:23 Manchester
10:12 York
NEW 11:24 Manchester
NEW 12:12 York
NEW 13:22 Manchester
NEW 14:12 York
15:22 Manchester
16:12 York
17:23 Manchester
18:12 York
Would be good to have a few more services towards the end of the evening though
(There also looks to be a lot more diversion via Castleford routes in place for the other Manchester Airport / Liverpool / Newcastle / Scarborough / Hull services!)
07:25 Manchester
08:14 York
09:23 Manchester
10:12 York
NEW 11:24 Manchester
NEW 12:12 York
NEW 13:22 Manchester
NEW 14:12 York
15:22 Manchester
16:12 York
17:23 Manchester
18:12 York
Would be good to have a few more services towards the end of the evening though
(There also looks to be a lot more diversion via Castleford routes in place for the other Manchester Airport / Liverpool / Newcastle / Scarborough / Hull services!)
Wilts Wanderer
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Yes - even in the late 70s when the north transpennine route became a loco-hauled operation predominantly focussed on the York-Leeds-Manchester-Liverpool axis and the Hull-Leeds leg was relegated to a connecting hourly DMU shuttle, it was fairly quickly (1981?) compensated by the Manchester-Sheffield and Sheffield-Doncaster-Goole-Hull semi-fasts being combined into a through service, utilising the high-quality 124 DMU stock released from the previous Liverpool-Hull workings (augmented I believe by similar 123 vehicles offloaded by the WR?) Admittedly a longer way around, but still a through service and not far off hourly frequency.
danbarjon
Member
I believe the 80x paths have been in place for a while however Avanti Managing Director has said in the most recent TfN (Transport for the North) committee meeting that with their transition plan that they want to see extra Liverpool services ran by the Class 807s hopefully by summer, obviously depending on training levels and acceptance of new trains. Hopefully this helps.
GWR have significantly enhanced the Sunday service on the North Downs Line by extending the xx:51 (now xx:50) Reading - Redhills through to Gatwick Airport, giving a 2tph frequency from the major stops to the airport and 1tph or 1tp2h direct links from the minor stations. Good news.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
That is just the train used for timing, in future, an 807 will likely operate that route, the slower timings for them were put in the last few timetable changes.
It doesn't mean an 80x will actually operate the route any time soon
sjm77
Member
Not PRE-OPERATION PRINCESS, no.
Having a look through SWR a few things have caught my eye.
There’s now 6 SWR passenger trains across the top of Cosham triangle, with 2 starting from Southampton Central.
The off peak pattern up the Portsmouth direct has swapped between the stopper and the fast.
I haven’t had a chance to look for any more oddities yet.
There’s now 6 SWR passenger trains across the top of Cosham triangle, with 2 starting from Southampton Central.
The off peak pattern up the Portsmouth direct has swapped between the stopper and the fast.
I haven’t had a chance to look for any more oddities yet.
dk1
Veteran Member
I knew that so no idea why I posted it
Must've been the vino.swt_passenger
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I found 6 up and 3 down ‘across the top’ with a few ECS as well. Some starting at Fareham. Thats quite a change from the situation before 2020 isn’t it? (Searched at Havant for trains previously calling at Fareham and vice versa.)