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Was the introduction of class 700 Thameslink stock relatively trouble-free?
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bengley
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They were horrifically unreliable for the first 12-14 months but there were no lengthy delays to their introduction.
westcoaster
Established Member
Compared to 319's they were miles ahead.
Also compared to the 377 introduction it was plain sailing.
bramling
Veteran Member
They were troublesome for the first year or so, though thankfully GN side users managed to avoid the worst of this. However they haven’t yet managed to settle down to a very solid level of availability, despite being roughly at the point in the lifespan where that point should certainly approaching if not here already. Perhaps Covid has played a part, who knows?
Is that due to them being single units? If they were 3x4 car EMUs their distance between failures would be three times higher
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
Was using them daily and they were pretty reliable. They also came in very handy during the Southern DOO dispute when they would deploy as many 12 cars as they could.
J-2739
Established Member
No, they definitely had their problems at the start; take a look at this long running thread which documents in detail the introduction of these units: (if you have the time...!!)
Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress
From this recent video by Siemens, it looks like the first Desiro City Shell isn't too far off completion. e52sCc1YbnE&app=desktop
www.railforums.co.uk
I never found them unreliable. There was a huge training gap and a lot of issues could be put down to not really understanding the units.
It's always going to be a huge technology leap from the older units and the 319's were not exactly the best units either.
I think there will be less of a leap between modern iterations.
bengley
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I understood the units very well because I'm competent and able to understand computers very well. They were very, very unreliable. Ask any Thameslink driver.
I know Southeastern weren't blighted with them as much as us at first.
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Drivers being unable to release doors on early morning services from Orpington, due to the train having been locked by platform staff the previous night, and having to depart ECS to commence service from Petts Wood doesn’t ring a bell
?There was a period during which they were truly shocking; admittedly it was generally systems/software issues rather than hardware “breakdowns” in the traditional sense.
357
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Did they ever work out a way to detrain them or does the driver still need to close the doors and then walk the length of the train?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The one time I was on one at a terminus the driver* failed to release the doors and wandered off, necessitating the use of the egress.
* Or the unit, could have been a technical issue.
That's my impression too.
It's more 'computer says no'. Than anything else.
It was a glitch that (AIUI) only happened at that location - something to do with the failure of the GPS interface with the on train computer system, which is driven off the trip code inputted from the diagram. It was fixed by a software update, as many such issues were.
That sounds like good old fashioned human error. I expect everyone in the driving grade has keyed off without releasing the doors at some point, although you generally realise the error before walking away from the train!
Class 466
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There was a lengthy period where they were limited to only 15 units accepted to service because of the poor reliability when new. It lasted a good few months.
Yes, but it did render them absolutely shocking in terms of availability (or lack thereof), to work the services they were diagrammed to, for several months.
brad465
Established Member
The one incident I remember was in 2019 when there was a mass power cut across the UK that particularly affected Eastern England, due to the grid frequency falling too low, and all the 700s active at the time shut down and needed to be manually switched on/reset to get going again, which exacerbated the disruption.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
The train did what it was supposed to do and protect itself from being damaged due to low frequency on the national grid.The issue was one version of the software didn't allow the driver to reboot themselves but other trains with an earlier release did. That change has been undone so if it happens again won't cause stranding.
bramling
Veteran Member
The most chaotic day on the railway I have ever experienced. I remember turning up at King’s Cross to find the station in total chaos, most of the doors locked with people outside unable to get in and people inside unable to get out, no staff visible, no announcements being made, departure boards blank, and what few trains were present were departing with no one on. I travelled home in a 12-car 365 with only a handful of people on which departed unadvertised.
whoosh
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I've only ever failed two.
1. No cab heat.
2. DOO monitors not functioning correctly.
That's pretty good going I think.
On the GN we missed all the brand new shake down nonsense!
There are no 'car close' buttons on the coach ends, unlike older units - or even 387s which have a t-key switch on the end of each coach which does the same thing.
So yes, to detrain when the train terminates, a member of station staff gets on, the doors are ALL closed and the staff member goes through the train. They can use one of four guard's panels in the train to 'open local door' and eject any passengers from being overcarried to the sidings, but of course have to walk the passenger through however many coaches first, maybe with their luggage.
However, class 717s have 'terminal mode' whereby when the 'door close' button at each door is pressed, it then locks the door too. Therefore any passengers can be ejected at the nearest door before pressing the button.
This is being retrofitted to 700s with a software update (along with another one, like on 717s also, giving more functionality to the Passenger Information System, allowing skipping and adding stops, rather than being able to skip the next stop only as currently). A briefing is going to be put together soon and then it can be implemented.
1. No cab heat.
2. DOO monitors not functioning correctly.
That's pretty good going I think.
On the GN we missed all the brand new shake down nonsense!
There are no 'car close' buttons on the coach ends, unlike older units - or even 387s which have a t-key switch on the end of each coach which does the same thing.
So yes, to detrain when the train terminates, a member of station staff gets on, the doors are ALL closed and the staff member goes through the train. They can use one of four guard's panels in the train to 'open local door' and eject any passengers from being overcarried to the sidings, but of course have to walk the passenger through however many coaches first, maybe with their luggage.
However, class 717s have 'terminal mode' whereby when the 'door close' button at each door is pressed, it then locks the door too. Therefore any passengers can be ejected at the nearest door before pressing the button.
This is being retrofitted to 700s with a software update (along with another one, like on 717s also, giving more functionality to the Passenger Information System, allowing skipping and adding stops, rather than being able to skip the next stop only as currently). A briefing is going to be put together soon and then it can be implemented.
The only real problems I knew of that were very common, was the change-over from AC to DC collection at Farringdon, rarely the other way around at City Thameslink. Having travelled on them north-south and vice-versa since their introduction, there used to be a lot of rebooting, or coming out of service due to a technical issue, but that is rarer these days.
CarrotPie
Member
Thameslink (especially the Core) has ample facilities to deal with those sorts of problems too.
dodecahedron67
Member
Remember being on one of the first few runs Bedford to Brighton in 2016, and it broke down about 3 times on the way!
At Bedford the doors wouldn't release after coming off Cauldwell sidings. Same at Farringdon. Emergency brake came on around Luton (I think)
So no, in a word haha
At Bedford the doors wouldn't release after coming off Cauldwell sidings. Same at Farringdon. Emergency brake came on around Luton (I think)
So no, in a word haha