Yes. It's the obvious route for Torness and Dounreay traffic, and RTT says there was one earlier today.
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Derailment near Grange Over Sands
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Bevan Price
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Yes. Not unusual. One (6K74) ran today according to RTT.
Saw it go through Lancaster.
TT-ONR-NRN
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Is there any update on the bus timetable? I’m going to Ulverston on Tuesday and would love some idea of roughly when the buses will leave Lancaster and when it should get in. Vice versa for Wednesday's return.
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No points for the engine falling off the bottom of the train.
It hasn’t been mentioned here but does how the rear unit (I believe 195133) was moved so quickly or where it is now. It probably shouldn’t have been back in service yet and there are a few spare units for now with the Hope Valley closed and various services not running around Sheffield this week.
But there is probably something stranded at Barrow, certainly the unit intended to run the southbound service and 195s are categorically not cleared to run back via Carlisle.
Toby Atkinson
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The train sets are still on the line near grange
I highly doubt any unit will of been moved, and I can’t see how rear unit could be moved backwards (the damaged track), and wouldn’t be moved until front set had been rerailed and moved.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Unlikely! Wilbert Awdry, who wrote the first 26 books, died in 1997, and his son Christopher, who took over the series in 1983 and wrote another sixteen, is now 83 and hasn't written anything since 2011 - a one-off to mark the centenary of his father's birth.On a more general note, I’m sure I’ve been told that the Furness engine falling down the sinkhole was the inspiration for one of the Thomas The Tank Engine tales - could we be due another book?
The story was "Thomas Down the Mine", in the eighth book in the series, "Gordon the Big Engine", published in 1953. Unlike Furness Railway No 115, Thomas was recovered.
Open top 80
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There is Usually a shuttle bus to the race track or it's a pleasant 40min walk
theageofthetra
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Another incident where this has happened, due to some clown deciding a dedicated back up battery was an unnecessary cost.
weepingwillowb
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Only what's currently on the National Rail website. Rail replacement buses take around 40 minutes to travel from Lancaster to Ulverston, departing from outside the station's front entrance.
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Mcr Warrior
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A 40 minute journey from Lancaster to Ulverston is for a rail journey in more normal circumstances. The RRB will take much, much longer, in particular the section of the journey from Arnside to Grange over Sands.Only what's currently on the National Rail website. Rail replacement buses take around 40 minutes to travel from Lancaster to Ulverston, departing from outside the station's front entrance.
Journey Planner Results | National Rail
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What an excellent video by a responsible, level headed and experienced man; this record of yet another example of man made flooding should go to the Govt Dept in charge of Natural England.
All over the country this Govt Outfit is carrying out actions that will reduce our abilities to provide our own food,
increasing our dependance on sometimes dubious foreign imports.
Natural England’s very restrictive, costly and time consuming conditions are having direct adverse effects, not least railway wise, on reopening and maintenance of railway lines and general railway infrastructure works.
As a neighbour and user of the Okehampton line their ‘‘interference’ and cost accumulating works and delays were all too plain to see and NR and their Contractors working on the project often suffered in desperation and frustration, hoping the scale of Natural England’s ‘interference’ will not be repeated on the now Govt. authorised and financed reopening between Tavistock and Bere Alston.
156421
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As with the Derwent Viaduct closure recently (somehow for the weekend it is closed to passenger trains but not to freight) Northern has failed to implement a "shuttle service" to stations either side of the closure.
NRE says 90min extra through to Barrow (not serving Silverdale/Arnside). That suggests an extra hour for the RRB. Assuming the buses can be sourced, you might get times uploaded tomorrow.
When they did Arnside viaduct, they ran fast from Carnforth to Grange. Arnside/Silverdale were served by a minibus. No viable facility for Arnside - Grange passengers.
strawberryline
Member
The RRB service is not calling at Arnside or Silverdale. Customers at Arnside and Silverdale are advised to contact 0800 200 6060 and alternative arrangements will be made.
Even cutting out these stations, Lancaster to Barrow journey times will be extended by 90 minutes on RRB
Toby Atkinson
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randyrippley
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9.06 metre spring tide expected tomorrow as well, possibly scouring out more of the void
That will be a biggy as its the equinox
strawberryline
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I don't think the image below
(from https://twitter.com/Phil_M_Barrett/status/1771612415039308063/photo/1 )
has been shared before. One of the extra pipes for pumping flood water out to sea, and added in recent years, is visible at the rhs of the image.
It's unclear where the missing ballast went! It isn't visible in the only image I've seen of the Seldom Seen outfall, second image below, from BBC. This outfall was the course of the River Winster before the river was diverted further east (as shown in old OS maps). Seldom Seen drains the enclosed area inland of the embankment, although it doesn't do a good job.
Seldom Seen, by the way, was a rock offshore (marked on old OS 25in maps) which was visible at low tide. It's no longer marked on OS maps
(from https://twitter.com/Phil_M_Barrett/status/1771612415039308063/photo/1 )
has been shared before. One of the extra pipes for pumping flood water out to sea, and added in recent years, is visible at the rhs of the image.
It's unclear where the missing ballast went! It isn't visible in the only image I've seen of the Seldom Seen outfall, second image below, from BBC. This outfall was the course of the River Winster before the river was diverted further east (as shown in old OS maps). Seldom Seen drains the enclosed area inland of the embankment, although it doesn't do a good job.
Seldom Seen, by the way, was a rock offshore (marked on old OS 25in maps) which was visible at low tide. It's no longer marked on OS maps
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Annetts key
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To me, it does look like water was flowing under / through the embankment. When the river at Cowley Bridge Junction (Exeter) took out the ballast formation during the high river flow / flooding event some years ago, the amount of ballast that disappeared was hard to believe.
Flowing water can move a surprising amount of material.
Flowing water can move a surprising amount of material.
strawberryline
Member
Seldom Seen - red circle
River Winster pre 1880 - blue circle
On reflection, the pre-1880 doesn't show the Winster in exactly the same point that the Seldom Seen outfall is now, but it shifted over time
In the BBC image you can see the tide mark left by last week's >10m tide, the highest of the year. Normal tides don't reach up the embankment much. Assuming at least some of the missing material went awol very soon before the derailment, I'd expect to see something of them in the BBC photo but there doesn't appear to be anything there?
River Winster pre 1880 - blue circle
On reflection, the pre-1880 doesn't show the Winster in exactly the same point that the Seldom Seen outfall is now, but it shifted over time
In the BBC image you can see the tide mark left by last week's >10m tide, the highest of the year. Normal tides don't reach up the embankment much. Assuming at least some of the missing material went awol very soon before the derailment, I'd expect to see something of them in the BBC photo but there doesn't appear to be anything there?
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randyrippley
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Is there any easy method of detecting a void like that?
I'm thinking of ground penetrating radar or electromagnetic anomaly sensing? Kind of thing you see on TV archaeology programs.
I'm thinking of ground penetrating radar or electromagnetic anomaly sensing? Kind of thing you see on TV archaeology programs.
CarrotPie
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Running a train over it and seeing what happens?
On a more realistic note, there is a newfangled technology that's highly effective at this sort of thing. It's called an eyeball.
randyrippley
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Couple of years ago one storm on a high tide removed overnight virtually all the pebble-sized loose material on the Carnforth slagheaps "beach". Several hundred yards of broken up furnace waste which had been smashed to pebbles by the sea.
Every ten years or so you'll get a storm which will move the River Kent channel completely across the bay, moving massive volumes of sand and stone
That requires daylight and walking speed. I was wondering about something you could strap onto a train and run at line speedRunning a train over it and seeing what happens?
On a more realistic note, there is a newfangled technology that's highly effective at this sort of thing. It's called an eyeball.
RichardAsh1981
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Ground penetrating radar might work, but is very dependent on soil types and conditions - I think the only option would be to record a baseline data set and look for differences, given how variable embankments are. Would require a track possession given the equipment would have to move slowly down the track very close to the ballast. There might be an issue telling apart water saturated ground and just a water filled void - which would be important.
Magnetometer systems would I think be a non-starter because of the running rails being steel!
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