• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Edinburgh & The Lothians Council Tender Services

stevenedin

Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,173
Location
Edinburgh
Am I missing something but this seems like a good example of local councillors caving in to a relatively few noisy objectors to the loss of an existing service (Lochend) whereas the much larger number of potential beneficiaries in Dumbiedykes make no noise as they were unaware of what was being proposed. The report states that the Lochend end of the route is less busy - because there are lots of other commercially run services nearby I guess.

I assume, I haven't checked, that the two areas may be in different electoral wards and hence have different councillors. Different parties maybe?

Seems a great pity that Dumbiedykes still can't get any service - there must be hundreds of residents who are half a mile from any bus stop, and not a level walk either. Quite amazing for an inner city location when you consider the density of bus routes nearby.
I only just noticed that Dumbiedykes isn’t included.

Ideally Lothian could alter one of its routes from Lochend/Craigentinny area to serve Findlay Gardens and St Clair Road. They could also change some existing routes from Leith Walk I mean 3 routes to the bridges, 2 to Lothian Road there could be at least one towards Queensferry Road way instead.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

VioletEclipse

Member
Joined
10 Nov 2018
Messages
716
Location
Dùn Èideann
Am I right that the Gyle to Balerno section of the 63 might be going without a replacement? It's decently used and provides a number of unique connections so hardly imporving connections in west Edinburgh, although I realise there's a need to prioritise.
 

Bus9120UK

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2019
Messages
1,413
Location
Edinburgh
Am I right that the Gyle to Balerno section of the 63 might be going without a replacement? It's decently used and provides a number of unique connections so hardly imporving connections in west Edinburgh, although I realise there's a need to prioritise.
No, it will be on the Balerno to Cramond route.
 

stevenedin

Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,173
Location
Edinburgh
thanks, sorry I had missed the 'Cramond to Gyle' route being extended to Balerno! Still no confirmation as to the service number I believe?
There’s no confirmation of service numbers at the moment.

It will be interesting to see if they will resurrect the route numbers as 64 and 69 for the new routes but will need to wait and see.

I would imagine 63 would remain for South Queensferry to Gyle.

I think that 20 will remain for Chesser to Calders and possibly a new route number for the Ratho service depending on what they go for.

They could use an X** route number of its to the city centre and if it’s the other one it could be ok the 60s like the rest but that’s just my thoughts.
 

JKP

Member
Joined
3 Jan 2023
Messages
229
Location
SE Scotland
Am I missing something but this seems like a good example of local councillors caving in to a relatively few noisy objectors to the loss of an existing service (Lochend) whereas the much larger number of potential beneficiaries in Dumbiedykes make no noise as they were unaware of what was being proposed. The report states that the Lochend end of the route is less busy - because there are lots of other commercially run services nearby I guess.

I assume, I haven't checked, that the two areas may be in different electoral wards and hence have different councillors. Different parties maybe?

Seems a great pity that Dumbiedykes still can't get any service - there must be hundreds of residents who are half a mile from any bus stop, and not a level walk either. Quite amazing for an inner city location when you consider the density of bus routes nearby.
The problem with Dumbiedykes is that it has been tried before and people have not travelled in sufficient numbers. My recall when I travelled many years ago is that I was the only passenger on a Seddon midibus.
 

stevenedin

Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,173
Location
Edinburgh
The problem with Dumbiedykes is that it has been tried before and people have not travelled in sufficient numbers. My recall when I travelled many years ago is that I was the only passenger on a Seddon midibus.
They really need to run a bus via Holyrood Road that is part of a long established route, whereas the 6 and 60 which were previously run here were so short that they never had much of a chance to pick up many passengers.
 

VioletEclipse

Member
Joined
10 Nov 2018
Messages
716
Location
Dùn Èideann
They really need to run a bus via Holyrood Road that is part of a long established route, whereas the 6 and 60 which were previously run here were so short that they never had much of a chance to pick up many passengers.
I've thought this for many years, something like a full length route from east to west that covers the full length of either the 6 or 60s former routes in the middle. Not sure which route it would take but I while back I came up with Trinity to Northfield via Holyrood. Anyway we're getting out of the realm of this thread.
 

DunsBus

Established Member
Joined
12 Jan 2013
Messages
1,439
Location
Duns
I've thought this for many years, something like a full length route from east to west that covers the full length of either the 6 or 60s former routes in the middle. Not sure which route it would take but I while back I came up with Trinity to Northfield via Holyrood. Anyway we're getting out of the realm of this thread.
They did, many years ago when the 45 was changed to run via Holyrood Road rather than the lower part of Canongate. It was rerouted away from there at deregulation.
As has been said many times there is neither the demand, nor the passenger numbers to justify running a service via Dumbiedykes. One could argue that this has been the case since the current scheme was built in the early seventies and even more so since 1986. The numbers simply don't add up.
 

A330Alex

Member
Joined
13 Feb 2019
Messages
223
A further update. A Dumbiedykes route will be introduced if sufficient budget remains.
Supported Bus Services Dynamic Purchasing System

On 25 January 2024, Finance and Resources Committee approved the establishment of a Dynamic Purchasing System (DPS) as a means to award contracts for the provision of supported bus services. The DPS will run for five years, with two optional extensions of 12 months each.

Four initial applications were received for companies to join the DPS. At the time of writing, these companies’ applications are currently being evaluated. The DPS will remain open for new applicants to join, and on-going admittance of suppliers will be based on evaluation of responses.

Once the DPS is established, individual competitions will be held among the operators to provide supported bus routes. Following competition, an update on contract awards will be provided to Finance and Resources Committee every six months.

Proposed Routes
An updated map showing the proposed supported bus service routes is attached in Appendix 1. This reflects the ) changes agreed by Committee on 16 November 2023, including the reinstatement of Service 13.

The proposed supported bus service routes have been developed, based on a number of sources of information, including:
• Stakeholder engagement, focused on rural west Edinburgh communities who provided feedback on draft route proposals;
• Engagement with bus operators, including those who have run the services in the past, to understand how routes could be adjusted to improve reliability and attractiveness to passengers;
• Demand analysis, reviewing annual ticket sale data from the existing supported services, together with population catchment area analysis; and
• Cost analysis, to test how much different service variations (e.g. time of day, frequency etc.) could cost and how affordable these could be (including potential fare revenue).

Mini-Competitions for Supported Bus Service Routes
It is proposed to begin tendering for the supported bus service routes with a package of West Edinburgh services, including a direct service from Ratho to the City Centre, the network covered by the existing services 20, 63 and 68, and a new link between South Gyle and Cramond. This will allow costs associated with all options to be assessed against available budget. Precise detail of service specifications and quality standards are being finalised for inclusion in tender documents.

Thereafter, a tender will be issued for Service 13 and if sufficient budget is available, a reintroduced Portobello Circular, and a new route serving Dumbiedykes. In advance of tendering, further consultation is proposed with community groups in the areas served, in order to optimise service provision.

Elected Members also requested information on the potential costs of a bus service for Dumbiedykes. Indicative costings will be shared with Political Groups in advance of the Council Budget meeting on 23.02.2024.

Integrated Impact Assessment (IIA) An IIA for Supported Buses has been published on the Council website.
 

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,181
So is Turnhouse out of picture for route 68?

I also wonder who the 4th operator is in this bidding process?
 

stevenedin

Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,173
Location
Edinburgh
So is Turnhouse out of picture for route 68?

I also wonder who the 4th operator is in this bidding process?
Waverley Travel
Lothian Buses
McGill’s
Edinburgh Coachlines

I would imagine anyway.

I think that maybe with all of the new housing built nearby, there could be a case for a commercial service or extension.
 

Bus9120UK

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2019
Messages
1,413
Location
Edinburgh

SNP councillors have announced they are planning to restore ‘much needed’ bus services to Dumbiedykes and Lady Nairne by committing hundreds of thousands of pounds of funding in their council budget proposals.​

Dumbiedykes, a city centre housing estate that is isolated by steep hills for people with mobility issues, and Lady Nairne, an area on the eastern side of Arthur’s Seat with a large proportion of sheltered housing, lost their bus services at the start of the Covid-19 pandemic in February 2020.

Previously both services were operated commercially without public support but their operators ended them saying they were no longer financially viable to run because of falling passenger numbers. SNP councillors say it is clear that council funding is needed to reinstate bus services for Dumbiedykes and Lady Nairne because other public transport options are not easily accessible by local residents.

The replacement service for Lady Nairne will link Willowbrae with shops and other amenities in Portobello, as well as restoring a service to the Bingham tunnel, and providing access to the Asda supermarket at the Jewel. The route for the Dumbiedykes service has not been announced yet but it is widely expected to link the area with the supermarkets, GP surgeries and other facilities of the Southside.


Cllr Danny Aston, the SNP transport spokesperson and the local ward member for Craigentinny/Duddingston which includes Lady Nairne, said: “Improving bus services is key if we’re serious about reducing car usage. As well as this, I grew up in Lady Nairne so I know there’s a lot of older people living in sheltered housing who don’t have access to a car and struggle with the steep hill up from Willowbrae Road.

“The lack of public transport for Dumbiedykes is maybe hard to believe for some, given it’s so central. Yet, it’s been without a bus service for four years now. It’s a lower income area and it’s densely populated and so it’s exactly where councillors should be directing support to ensure there’s a reliable and regular bus service for local residents.

“I’m proud that my SNP colleagues and I are putting forward these plans.”

SNP MP Tommy Sheppard, whose Edinburgh East seat covers both Dumbiedykes and Lady Nairne, said: “I’m delighted by this news. Both areas, Dumbiedykes and Lady Nairne, benefit from being near Arthur’s Seat but that means both have steep climbs to get either to or from local shops or health services. After four years without much needed bus services, I know that both areas will really welcome this plan – I just hope that the Labour administration and their Tory and Lib Dem allies will match this commitment.”

All parties on the council have the opportunity of drawing up their own financial plans for spending the council’s £1 billion budget. All councillors meet on 22 February to agree which budget or parts of which budget they will approve.

The council papers will be published here with all budget plans in the few days before the council meeting.

Map of proposed new Lady Nairne-Bingham-Jewel-Portobello bus service (formerly the 69) :

Looks like a Dumbiedykes route will be introduced and there will be enough funding to guarantee the Portobello circular as well.
 
Joined
25 Jan 2022
Messages
916
Location
Edinburgh

Porty

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2020
Messages
81
Location
Edinburgh


Looks like a Dumbiedykes route will be introduced and there will be enough funding to guarantee the Portobello circular as well.
But the SNP are not the ruling party, they are in opposition but have the right to propose a budget. It's more likely that a Labour budget proposal with Con and Lib Dem support will prevail. The report talks of the budget setting meeting on 22 Feb.
 

TheEastCoaster

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
1,225


Looks like a Dumbiedykes route will be introduced and there will be enough funding to guarantee the Portobello circular as well.

Excellent news! Hope the Dumbiedykes route is a good one.
 

Bus9120UK

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2019
Messages
1,413
Location
Edinburgh
But the SNP are not the ruling party, they are in opposition but have the right to propose a budget. It's more likely that a Labour budget proposal with Con and Lib Dem support will prevail. The report talks of the budget setting meeting on 22 Feb.
Thanks. I don't usually follow this so I am not completely familiar with how it all functions.
 

stevenedin

Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,173
Location
Edinburgh
Also as a result of the Lib Dem's plans being incorporated into the budget, in 2024/25 there will be £300k for improvements to subsidised bus services across the city
The Tories were also successful in securing £240k to restore bus services 69 and 20 for Willowbrae/Lady Nairne and Dumbiedykes
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
1,716
Location
Edinburgh
I don’t know if that’s a mistake or what way it will go if it is true. Possibly, they could run along a route after Chesser which has very few or no buses to provide new links.
Given the likelihood that the 20 and 63 are going to be merged into one route I somewhat doubt that it’s going to receive a city centre extension. Even if they’re not merged it still seems very unlikely. The only road along that stretch that doesn’t have any kind of city centre link would be Robertson Avenue, which is within walking distance of countless services along both Gorgie and Shandon. Chesser Avenue with the 35 is a city centre link, albeit not a strong one and again that could be used to its advantage.

Dumbiedykes would’ve been best served by the 13, albeit from Hanover Street and not that mess of a proposal. But then again the few people that use the Lochend extension kicked up a fuss about it and now it has to stay, even though pretty much all of the route in that stretch is already duplicated by other services, namely the 9, 10 and 25.

My only other assumption is that could the 63 number survive for the merged 20/63 and then the 20 number act as the Ratho to City bus? That would seem much more likely.
 
Last edited:

CSB0241

On Moderation
Joined
22 Apr 2023
Messages
132
Location
Edinburgh, Scotland
I am going assume that we can see Edinburgh Coach Lines getting a new vehicle or two for public service if they are wanting the 69 (& maybe 20?) tender, in case a vehicle breaks down.

-===-
New post

Does anybody know when bidding for the new tenders will be taking place, & is there news about what tenders are coming?
 
Last edited:

Bus9120UK

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2019
Messages
1,413
Location
Edinburgh
I am going assume that we can see Edinburgh Coach Lines getting a new vehicle or two for public service if they are wanting the 69 (& maybe 20?) tender, in case a vehicle breaks down.

-===-
New post

Does anybody know when bidding for the new tenders will be taking place, & is there news about what tenders are coming?
Here is the Business Bulletin from the Transport and Economic committee today: https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/s67777/Item 6.1 - Business Bulletin_March 2024 v4 combined.pdf
Not much change from what has been previously mentioned. The following is from the Supported Bus Services section:

Mini-Competitions for Supported Bus Service Routes Tender documents for all west Edinburgh routes are nearly complete. When tenders are published, operators will have three weeks to submit bids for assessment. Prices are being invited on the routes, operating hours and frequencies shown in Appendix 2. Alternative bids are also being invited, where operators can submit options, which may present good value and work efficiently with the resources they have available.

Development of the options to be priced (listed in Appendix 2), is based on delivering reliable services operating on a consistent timetable for communities with limited alternative public transport options and within the available budget. Following submission of tender returns, these will be assessed against the available budget and recommendations made on routes and frequency of services. It should also be noted that contracts may not be awarded if deemed unsuitable or unaffordable. An update on the outcome of this will be prepared for Committee. Committee is asked to note that, in preparing the route information for tender, Council officers recognise the request from the Ratho Bus User Group that an existing commercial service is redirected from the A71 to serve Ratho. However, to date, the operator has not expressed a willingness to do so, and the Council is unable to require that they do.

Appendix 2 (page 27) shows what the first round of tenders will more or less look like. The Portobello, Craigleith/Lochend & Dumbiedykes routes will come later in the year.
 

stevenedin

Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,173
Location
Edinburgh
Here is the Business Bulletin from the Transport and Economic committee today: https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/s67777/Item 6.1 - Business Bulletin_March 2024 v4 combined.pdf
Not much change from what has been previously mentioned. The following is from the Supported Bus Services section:



Appendix 2 (page 27) shows what the first round of tenders will more or less look like. The Portobello, Craigleith/Lochend & Dumbiedykes routes will come later in the year.
They are obviously talking about the Lothian Country X27 and X28 not willing to be extended into Ratho, to be fair, the journeys are impacted enough and this would only work if they cut the routes to terminate at Livingston Centre and the other part of the routes ran as other routes.
 

Bus9120UK

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2019
Messages
1,413
Location
Edinburgh
Do correct me if I am wrong, but as per the Contract Award Notice, the following operators bid for West Edinburgh tenders (these are not the winners):

V.2.3) Name and address of the contractor
Borders Buses Limited

Ramparts Business Park, North Road

Berwick upon Tweed

TD15 1TX

UK

Telephone: +44 7921791429

NUTS: UKM91

The contractor is an SME: Yes

V.2.3) Name and address of the contractor
Lothian Motorcoaches

55 Annandale Street

Edinburgh

EH7 4AZ

UK

Telephone: +44 7740216262

NUTS: UKM75

The contractor is an SME: No

V.2.3) Name and address of the contractor
Handicabs Lothian

24/3A Dryden Road

Edinburgh

EH20 9HX

UK

Telephone: +44 1314479953

NUTS: UKM78

The contractor is an SME: Yes

V.2.3) Name and address of the contractor
SALMONDS MINI COACH HIRE LTD

THE YARD, OLD LEVENSEAT

FAULDHOUSE

EH47 9AD

UK

Telephone: +44 1501770697

NUTS: UKM78

The contractor is an SME: Yes
 

Bus9120UK

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2019
Messages
1,413
Location
Edinburgh
I am sure that this was covered earlier on here, and that they have just been added to the approved contractors.
The notice was added on April 3rd. The previous messages here were on March 7th. There was a similar discussion when similar occurred in West Lothian.
 

Top