Edinburgh & The Lothians Council Tender Services

[overthewater]

The timetable for the no23 has been revised to what was suggested...

https://www.citylink.co.uk/media/xcrdskgf/route-23-timetable-leaflet-nov23-web.pdf

 

[JKP]

The timetable for the no23 has been revised to what was suggested...

https://www.citylink.co.uk/media/xcrdskgf/route-23-timetable-leaflet-nov23-web.pdf

I assume that Citylink will use one of its contractors to run the 23. The through fares to Edinburgh and Glasgow look a little on the high side.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

I assume that Citylink will use one of its contractors to run the 23. The through fares to Edinburgh and Glasgow look a little on the high side.

Hairy Haggis from Fauldhouse will be operating it

 

[CSB0241]

Is there any news about the 13 being updated next year or has that yet to be worked out?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Is there any news about the 13 being updated next year or has that yet to be worked out?

It was originally meant to change at the east end to terminate at Dumbiedykes, but it isn't changing anymore apparently. Even Edinburgh Coach Lines were convinced that it was changing.

 

[CSB0241]

It was originally meant to change to Greendykes but it isn't changing anymore apparently. Even Edinburgh Coach Lines were convinced that it was changing.

Greendykes? How would that work out?

 

[stevenedin]

It was originally meant to change to Greendykes but it isn't changing anymore apparently. Even Edinburgh Coach Lines were convinced that it was changing.

I think it was Dumbiedykes but apparently the route is still in contract until near the end of 2024 so the tendered network will need to be looked at again.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Simple answer is exactly what goes out for tender is unconfirmed. At the Transport Committee a few months ago it was discussed that they may tender for both variations of the 13 (Lochend and Dumbiedykes), but aren't sure if it's the best idea as it may just give the operators an opportunity to choose which one they'd prefer serving.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I think it was Dumbiedykes but apparently the route is still in contract until near the end of 2024 so the tendered network will need to be looked at again.

It was, the "dykes" are confusing me.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Any idea when the actual bids for the 2024 tenders will take place? so we know when for sure operators can put in for routes

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Any idea when the actual bids for the 2024 tenders will take place? so we know when for sure operators can put in for routes

I'm not sure on that but I know that Edinburgh Coach Lines are mainly interested in the 13 and 69. They might plonk a bid on the other ones too though.

 

[Stan Drews]

Any idea when the actual bids for the 2024 tenders will take place? so we know when for sure operators can put in for routes

The council will make the operators aware when the tender specifications are issued, and they will normally have a minimum of 2 weeks to submit bids for any contracts that are of interest to them.
It is expected that the council will issue the tender at some point in the early part of next year.

 

[BorisS123]

Hi guys, I need to find out one information about Lothian buses. In the supported bus services there needs to be agreement between bus operator and council - it´s suburban transport. On public contracts scotland l can not find this agreement. I need to find out how they calculate the refundation fot this operator. Thank you so much

 

[Theproinsider]

Hi guys, I need to find out one information about Lothian buses. In the supported bus services there needs to be agreement between bus operator and council - it´s suburban transport. On public contracts scotland l can not find this agreement. I need to find out how they calculate the refundation fot this operator. Thank you so much

The information is between the Council that let's a tender, and the operator. Just look at the contract price in the council's tendering announcement.

Lothian run very few tenders, so I'm not quite sure what you're trying to discover.

 

[BorisS123]

The information is between the Council that let's a tender, and the operator. Just look at the contract price in the council's tendering announcement.

Lothian run very few tenders, so I'm not quite sure what you're trying to discover.

I´m trying to discover how they are counting the concession for them. According to 1370/2007 EU operator can not be at a loss, so at least they need to have some agreement how they calculate and check the costs. I´m looking for information for my thesis; it´s about setting the money for public suburban transport.

 

[GusB]

According to 1370/2007 EU operator can not be at a loss

What is this 1370/2007? Could you provide a link and quote the relevant section, please?

 

[BorisS123]

Regulation - 1370/2007 - EN - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu

It´s european legislative. I know you don´t have to have it now, but at that time you had it. Article 6 is about that.

Many Member States have enacted legislation providing for the award of exclusive rights and public service contracts in at least part of their public transport market, on the basis of transparent and fair competitive award procedures. As a result, trade between Member States has developed significantly and several public service operators are now providing public passenger transport services in more than one Member State. However, developments in national legislation have led to disparities in the procedures applied and have created legal uncertainty as to the rights of public service operators and the duties of the competent authorities. Regulation (EEC) No 1191/69 of the Council of 26 June 1969 on action by Member States concerning the obligations inherent in the concept of a public service in transport by rail, road and inland waterway (4), does not deal with the way public service contracts are to be awarded in the Community, and in particular the circumstances in which they should be the subject of competitive tendering. The Community legal framework ought therefore to be updated.

 

[JKP]

I´m trying to discover how they are counting the concession for them. According to 1370/2007 EU operator can not be at a loss, so at least they need to have some agreement how they calculate and check the costs. I´m looking for information for my thesis; it´s about setting the money for public suburban transport.

Am confused by what you mean by concession. If you mean how Lothian operate bus services, the operator is free to run any route it wants under the Transport Act 1985. This is done without subsidy though the operator will be able to claim bus service operator grant (BSOG) and concessionary travel reimbursement for those aged under 22s and over 60 from Transport Scotland.

City of Edinburgh Council can invite tenders for bus services to fill in the gaps it considers to be socially necessary between the non subsidised routes. The Council will have a budget for bus services, but is under no obligation to spend this in full, so if a tender comes in beyond its budget, it may not let the tender or seek an alternative tender, such as a reduced number of journeys or limit the number of days per week the service runs so that its budget is not exceeded.

 

[BorisS123]

Am confused by what you mean by concession. If you mean how Lothian operate bus services, the operator is free to run any route it wants under the Transport Act 1985. This is done without subsidy though the operator will be able to claim bus service operator grant (BSOG) and concessionary travel reimbursement for those aged under 22s and over 60 from Transport Scotland.

City of Edinburgh Council can invite tenders for bus services to fill in the gaps it considers to be socially necessary between the non subsidised routes. The Council will have a budget for bus services, but is under no obligation to spend this in full, so if a tender comes in beyond its budget, it may not let the tender or seek an alternative tender, such as a reduced number of journeys or limit the number of days per week the service runs so that its budget is not exceeded.

as you are saying in the second part, council can invite tenders. They tender some operator let´s say with the lowest price. After that they send all the money to the operator and don´t check it after ? Or how is it working in Scotland ? In SVK we tender and have contract, and there is written how council will calculate the money for operator (costs of fuel, drivers...) for all the time during this contract

 

[Theproinsider]

as you are saying in the second part, council can invite tenders. They tender some operator let´s say with the lowest price. After that they send all the money to the operator and don´t check it after ? Or how is it working in Scotland ? In SVK we tender and have contract, and there is written how council will calculate the money for operator (costs of fuel, drivers...) for all the time during this contract

UK services are run in three separate ways. In London/Greater Manchester it's a franchise, where operators bid and get paid to run a route for a specified period.

The rest of mainland UK is deregulated. Operators are free to run what they want. Local Authorities can add tendered services to plug gaps.

You can find P&L's (profits and losses) from Companies House but, generally, individual route costings are commercially sensitive, and you won't be able to obtain them.

You can try Transport Scotland for reimbursement rates for concession travel, but passenger numbers are commercially sensitive, and it's unlikely you'll receive what you're hoping to get.

 

[JKP]

as you are saying in the second part, council can invite tenders. They tender some operator let´s say with the lowest price. After that they send all the money to the operator and don´t check it after ? Or how is it working in Scotland ? In SVK we tender and have contract, and there is written how council will calculate the money for operator (costs of fuel, drivers...) for all the time during this contract

Contracts are normally paid on either a monthly basis or 13 4 week payments in a year. I do not know how Edinburgh pay out. It is the operator’s responsibility to ensure that all their costs of fuel, drivers, vehicles, depots etc are covered by the tender price submitted.

 

[A330Alex]

The latest update from the Transport and Environment Committee:

Supported Bus Services
A Contract Notice for the Dynamic Purchasing System
(DPS) for Supported Bus Services in Edinburgh was
published alongside a Single Procurement Document
(SPD) on 9 November 2023 on the Public Contracts
Scotland Website. The deadline for responses was 22
December 2023.

The responses will be assessed against the mandatory
qualification criteria contained in the SPD and the
outcome of this assessment is expected to be reported to
Finance and Resources Committee on 25 January 2024.
Transport and Environment Committee will be updated on
this on 1 February 2024.

All contractors awarded onto the DPS will then be invited,
through mini-competition, to tender for any supported bus
route across the City of Edinburgh.
The DPS will run for five years, with two optional
extensions of 12 months each. Additional providers can
be added at any time during the duration of the DPS,
provided that they meet the mandatory qualification
criteria.

As requested by Committee in November 2023, details of
how the routes have been devised will be included in the
update for Committee on 1 February 2024.

 

[CSB0241]

The latest update from the Transport and Environment Committee:

Has there been any news on the tenders since this?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Has there been any news on the tenders since this?

No, however there should be information as to how they came up with the routes in the Transport Committee on February 1st as per a request from the one in November. Perhaps we'll see if they've made any tweaks to the routes then. There may be other information, we'll see then.

 

[CSB0241]

No, however there should be information as to how they came up with the routes in the Transport Committee on February 1st as per a request from the one in November. Perhaps we'll see if they've made any tweaks to the routes then. There may be other information, we'll see then.

Good to know. Aside from the 69 & Cramond to Balerno tenders, what are the other ones floating around?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Good to know. Aside from the 69 & Cramond to Balerno tenders, what are the other ones floating around?

These tenders include a cut version of the Service 20, a cut version of the Service 63 (Queensferry - Gyle Centre). There's also one that may not happen from Ratho to Edinburgh, we'll see on February 1st an updated version of this. The 13 is also staying but apparently it's not going to Dumbiedykes anymore, even the Edinburgh Coach Lines staff were convinced it was changing.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I've just noticed this document put up 18th January 2024. It looks like no other changes have been made since November other than the already mentioned revert of the 13 from Dumbiedykes to Lochend.

 

[stevenedin]

I've just noticed this document put up 18th January 2024. It looks like no other changes have been made since November other than the already mentioned revert of the 13 from Dumbiedykes to Lochend.

Interesting that they are putting out a cost check for Ratho to City Centre and that if this goes ahead and is viable the Gyle Centre - Hermiston Park & Ride via Ratho service will not go ahead.

The Calders to Chesser will be a very short route. I can only see it being run by a small bus.

 

[freddiem]

Interesting that they are putting out a cost check for Ratho to City Centre and that if this goes ahead and is viable the Gyle Centre - Hermiston Park & Ride via Ratho service will not go ahead.

The Calders to Chesser will be a very short route. I can only see it being run by a small bus.

I suspect that if the same company were to be tendered for the S Queensferry to Gyle route as the Calders chesser one then they would run it as a through service with a short commercial section in the middle.

 

[Porty]

I've just noticed this document put up 18th January 2024. It looks like no other changes have been made since November other than the already mentioned revert of the 13 from Dumbiedykes to Lochend.

Am I missing something but this seems like a good example of local councillors caving in to a relatively few noisy objectors to the loss of an existing service (Lochend) whereas the much larger number of potential beneficiaries in Dumbiedykes make no noise as they were unaware of what was being proposed. The report states that the Lochend end of the route is less busy - because there are lots of other commercially run services nearby I guess.

I assume, I haven't checked, that the two areas may be in different electoral wards and hence have different councillors. Different parties maybe?

Seems a great pity that Dumbiedykes still can't get any service - there must be hundreds of residents who are half a mile from any bus stop, and not a level walk either. Quite amazing for an inner city location when you consider the density of bus routes nearby.