I used to live close to the Rhymney line. When the class 37 came thundering past in the evening peak, it made my letter box rattle. I wasn't even the closest house to the railway, I was the sixth house away on a street at right angles to the railway. After that I moved to a flat on a main road where I had to listen to Dennis Darts droning away every 7/8 minutes in each direction. I can just imagine the laughter at Cardiff Bus if I had complained about it.
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Potential future uses for class 68 & Mk5 sets?
- Thread starter Iskra
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stevieinselby
Member
People living near Scarborough station had lived there quite happily for years and had no issues with the comings and goings of 158s, 170s, 185s and presumably Pacers and older loco-hauled stock as well.
The 68s were noticeably louder, to the extent that they were upsetting people nearby who had not been remotely bothered by other trains.
Philip
On Moderation
185s are very loud themselves when thrashed, as are the 170s with the hyper-sounding turbo.
Mgameing123
Member
Honestly a bus every 7 minutes would be the dream for me.
I still think it's weird to complain about the sound of trains when you decided to live next to a railway.
There's living next door to a railway where you experience a certain level of noise. But you wouldn't expect that noise to get louder, would you? Progress has generally been that stuff gets quieter over time.
AIUI it’s a very different type of noise - really boomy and deep such that it carries further and penetrates walls etc more…..the sort of noise you feel.
MarlowDonkey
Established Member
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Travelling to Scarborough when these 68+Mk5 trains were in use, it seemd a little odd to find inter-city style trains on what was just a shuttle service along a branch line from York. Elsewhere in the country, some flavour of DMU would be expected, as for example Lancaster to Barrow.
That was only once use was concentrated between York and Scarborough in their later days once they truly fell out of favour with TPE. The original plan was for them to form all services between Liverpool and Scarborough and between Manchester Airport and Middlesbrough.
stevieinselby
Member
It was only when TPX went pear-shaped post-Covid that the Scarborough service was reduced to a shuttle to York – previously it had been an hourly service through to Manchester or beyond, and that was the intention when the Nova fleet was procured. The 68+Mk5as were also going to be used on services from Middlesbrough/Redcar.
Killingworth
Established Member
And they were very briefly tried on South Pennine - after many training hours had been wasted on that!
stevieinselby
Member
I think that was only after the furore about noise levels in Scarborough, when they thought that they might get away with running them to Cleethorpes instead. I'm not sure why they thought residents there would be any more amenable – sure, there are plenty of 66s running to Immingham which is nearby, but no freight through to Grimsby or Cleethorpes so no reason to think that people living there were inured to loud locomotives...
Killingworth
Established Member
Not many houses near tracks at Cleethorpes (mostly commercial properties) with none between the line and the sea on one side. Many months valuable training wasted on that aborted exercise - but they were/are noisy!
xotGD
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Yes. Great, isn't it?
BlueLeanie
Member
If they use those, the wealthy residents of Marylebone, Buckinghamshire, and Oxfordshire might demand electrification.
MerlinRail 804
Member
I'd be surprised if they're not already TBH.
Anyway if 68+Mk5s happen, and then electrification later, would it be possible to convert 68s to 88s to make the best use of wires?
43096
On Moderation
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Not enough 88s!
GraphitProjekt
Member
I recall that was one of the ostensive reasons that TPE went for locos, 'so they could be made electric by swapping out the loco'.
In any case, I've not seen any railway or governmental authority actually express even intent to electrify those lines. So even if a proposals and funding assurance was given tomorrow, it'd be best part of a decade before entry into service. It seems likely to me that they would go for a discontinuous system due to the complexity of sharing with the DC 4th rail, and that would require a rolling stock order of battery/AC bimodes.
In any case, I've not seen any railway or governmental authority actually express even intent to electrify those lines. So even if a proposals and funding assurance was given tomorrow, it'd be best part of a decade before entry into service. It seems likely to me that they would go for a discontinuous system due to the complexity of sharing with the DC 4th rail, and that would require a rolling stock order of battery/AC bimodes.
MerlinRail 804
Member
I was thinking more along the lines of actually adding the electric equipment to make them bi-mode rather swapping the locos
Chiltern briefly mentioned they’re looking at the options when they introduced the first refurbed 168
The 88s have a considerably less powerful diesel engine than the 68s, in order to fit all the other components. It’s probably cheaper to just buy more bi-mode locomotives than trying to rebuild a 68 with a new engine to make it bi-mode.
MerlinRail 804
Member
Fair
craigybagel
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They're also essentially useless at hauling passenger trains on diesel.
They'd need a rebuild, not worth it. Should there be excess diesel locos, older ones being retired is far more likely than 68s being rebuilt into bimode.
Chiltern did tender for BEMU options but presumably found the range insufficient. Last heard Chiltern, Network Rail, DfT and GBR Transition Team favoured discontinuous electrification for Chiltern.
First were interested in new locos for TPE and the Night Riviera, though I suspect TPE was included because GWR alone would be a tiny order.
The 68s/mk5as were chosen to meet franchise timescales, if they were ordered solely because of future bi-mode operation - they'd have ordered more 802s instead.
GraphitProjekt
Member
I am aware of this. But it's just that I recall a Geoff Marshall video made back when the Nova names were introduced where he seemed to say someone had told him that having locos was to do with mystical future electrification. Of course it isn't, but I do find it interesting that some marketing person thought they might spin that if briefly
Narrowgauge725
Member
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I reckon this all hinges on whether the noise issues with the 68s have been overcome. When I travelled through Marylebone on Tuesday (25/02/2025) staff there said only two out of four sets/diagrams of Mk3s were in use. This suggests to me that the noise levels are still an issue. That is unless the Mk3s are so knackered and the noise issue is a myth - but my own ears tell me otherwise.
87015
Established Member
A view of RTT would show the two set claim as incorrect for a start...
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Interesting, I only crossed two Southbound 68s but that does not prove how many.
sprinterguy
Established Member
To be fair, I checked RTT for Tuesday out of curiosity and could only find the two regular Birmingham diagrams being worked by 68s that day (011 and 015 respectively), and none on any Oxford services.
MerlinRail 804
Member
they don’t do any Oxfords anymore, but they do sometimes work the Tuesday - Thursday Risborough services
sprinterguy
Established Member
Cheers, I thought I'd covered all possibilities checking a few locations, but completely missed those - So, yes, four diagrams operating after all. My apologies to 87015, I had no idea those Princes Risboroigh services existed.
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