London - Milton Keynes daily commute

Looking at the cheapest way to do this with a senior railcard and 60+Oyster. Would the best bet be Advance singles outbound, assuming start times fairly fixed and walk up off peak single to Watford Junc on way back given more uncertainty on finishing times?

4.2. Discounts are not available on tickets for travel on morning peak services for journeys that start and end within the London & South East area (defined by the Network Railcard area) on Monday to Friday (except on public holidays). The time when off-peak services start can vary by station. Use nationalrail.co.uk to plan your journey to identify when off-peak services start or ask rail staff for details.

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might be relevant

deltic said:

Looking at the cheapest way to do this with a senior railcard and 60+Oyster. Would the best bet be Advance singles outbound, assuming start times fairly fixed and walk up off peak single to Watford Junc on way back given more uncertainty on finishing times?

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Worth comparing to season ticket prices as well, particularly if you can afford an annual. But single out, Railcard single back is generally worth doing. If you're flexible maybe don't buy the return journey until you know when you will travel - there are cheaper Avanti only fares and there may be Advances. And if Bletchley is an option there's contactless which at the moment is sometimes charging less than it should be.

If willing to use slower trains Bletchley-Euston Anytime Day Single is cheaper by about £1.50 split at Cheddington (absolutely astonishing that they didn't manage to avoid split anomalies in a completely new simple, linear fare set with uniform off peak restrictions), but that does cost you half an hour and I don't know if it's true of MKC, but putting it into Trainsplit may be useful just to see.

Happy to be corrected but I’m not sure the 60+ Oyster card is valid beyond Harrow & Wealdstone on London Northwestern.

From https://www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk/tickets-discounts/ticket-types/london-travelcards

Boundary fares (if you are travelling beyond your Travelcard’s area)
If you already have a Travelcard (One Day or Season) or a 60+ Oyster Card or Freedom Pass, then when you book a ticket to a station outside your Travelcard’s area, you only need to pay the excess to or from the boundary station.
At the ticket office, these tickets are issued to or from the zonal boundary, which will show as, for example “Boundary Zone 6” on the ticket.
From self-service ticket machines, you can select a “Boundary Zone” origin or destination and the correct excess fare will be shown. To find Boundary Zone fares, please select ‘Tickets from another Station’ on the Home Screen.
The exceptions are journeys to or from stations north of Northampton, where Boundary Zone fares are not available, but fares from stations within each of the Boundary Zones are – see below.
On the LNR website or app, Boundary Zone tickets are not available, but you can easily buy the same ticket by using a boundary station instead. Simply enter the boundary station that corresponds to the outermost zone on your Travelcard as your origin station instead of London, if you are travellling away from London, If you are travelling towards London, enter the boundary station as your destination.
If you cannot find a Boundary Zone fare on a TVM, you can select a boundary station instead, as per the website guidance above.
The train does not need to stop at the boundary station for the combination of tickets to be valid.

Zone	West Coast Main Line
2	Willesden Junction
3	Stonebridge Park
4	Kenton
5	Headstone Lane
6	Hatch End

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Note that the Avanti site allows origin station
Boundary Zone 6

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Also https://content.tfl.gov.uk/60-plus-london-free-travel-national-rail-map.pdf shows free 60+ travel only to Watford on the stopping service, as @Hadders says, otherwise Harrow & Wealdstone, both after 09:00.

jfollows said:

@Hadders says, otherwise Harrow & Wealdstone, both after 09:00.

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I was looking at the map on the TfL website, linked above, specifically the key that shows validity on ‘NR lines’ between Euston and Harrow & Wealdstone only.

Validity is shown to Watford Junction but only on London Overground.

I’m not sure if this is the exact position, or a simplified version that shows ‘station call’ validity.

Hadders said:

I was looking at the map on the TfL website, linked above, specifically the key that shows validity on ‘NR lines’ between Euston and Harrow & Wealdstone only.

Validity is shown to Watford Junction but only on London Overground.

I’m not sure if this is the exact position, or a simplified version that shows ‘station call’ validity.

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I always have to think about this map, but, yes, when I said ‘stopping service’ I meant the all shacks London Overground service, I wasn’t clear I don’t think.

So if travel is before 9am then no benefit from the 60+ Oyster or the Senior Railcard, but returning the latter can be used throughout, the former with LNWR and a BZ6 ticket, but my recollection is that Avanti do not allow the 60+ Oyster to be used this way. Or return to Watford and change into the all-shacks stopping service for free there.

jfollows said:

I always have to think about this map, but, yes, when I said ‘stopping service’ I meant the all shacks London Overground service, I wasn’t clear I don’t think.

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It’s not my area of expertise, but I do know it a bit complicated!

If your morning commute involves having to be in the office for the typical 9am start, neither your 60+ Oyster card nor your Senior Railcard would be valid. So you'd probably just be best off buying either an Advance ticket if you can find one that suits your travel plans, or alternatively an Anytime Day Single, route "Any Permitted" (£25.90) or "Avanti only" (£25.30) depending on which company's train you want to take.

If you can arrive in slightly later (e.g. 09:07), and would be willing to take a semifast train which stops at intermediate stations such as Leighton Buzzard, you could benefit from Off-Peak fares and the Senior Railcard discount for at least part of the journey - since the Railcard's validity is tied to when the former become available. You'd buy an Anytime Day Single from London to Leighton Buzzard, an Off-Peak Day Return from there to Milton Keynes (valid from 08:45, thus you can arrive at MK at 09:07), and an Off-Peak Day Single from Leighton Buzzard to Hatch End. Total daily cost would thus be £32.60.

For the evening return journey, if you want to take a non-stop train you would be best off just buying a Super Off-Peak Day Single from Milton Keynes to London, costing £11.90 or £12.75 with your Senior Railcard depending on whether you go for "Avanti only" or "Any Permitted".

Taking a semifast train saves you between 90p and £1.75 if you split at Bletchley, but that's probably not worthwhile unless you've just missed a non-stop train and there isn't another one for a while. You don't actually save any money by using the Overground, since an Off-Peak Day Single from Bletchley costs the same to both Watford Junction and Hatch End.

There are no evening restrictions southbound on the Super Off Peak Day Single from MKC to Euston (either Avanti only or Any Permitted) so no need for an Anytime on the way back. This discounts to less than the Boundary Zone 6 or Hatch End Anytime fare. It's more expensive than the Bletchley split appears to be but you do get to use Avanti.

Thanks everyone for your comments very helpful.