End of the Royal Train: alternative uses and what might have been

ExRes · Wednesday at 11:33

THC said:
I don't suppose we can keep the train and lose the monarchy? No, thought not. Ahem, as you were.

THC

Downside to that of course is the train would bring next to no income to the country where the monarchy brings millions of visitors and pounds, unless President Starmer would become a major international draw :lol:

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102 fan · Wednesday at 11:45

THC said:
I don't suppose we can keep the train and lose the monarchy? No, thought not. Ahem, as you were.

THC

It wouldn't save any money, as everything in place now would remain and become Presidental. Plus the risk of electing someone controversial. President Farage?.....

birchesgreen · Wednesday at 11:52

102 fan said:
It wouldn't save any money, as everything in place now would remain and become Presidental. Plus the risk of electing someone controversial. President Farage?.....

He would insist on a smoking coach being added.

JLH4AC · Wednesday at 14:40

Fawkes Cat said:
Just to pick up on this one - a train will surely always reach its destination at a station, and come and go by a defined route. So if HMK takes the Royal Train to Liverpool, then it's not too difficult for anyone _whether malicious or otherwise - to work out that it will come through the cutting into Lime Street. That's something of an open door for a terrorist or similar. Whereas driving, the car could arrive by the M62, or the M53 (and tunnel) or go round by Preston and the A565 from Southport, or (and so on)

I don't think that trains score that well on security.

The routes that the Royal Motorcade takes from key locations are well-known to the public, as unmarked Range Rovers and a Rolls-Royce being escorted by police outriders is not what you would call inconspicuous. The railway has the benefit over roads of being much easier to close off to the public, you just need to send police to clear stations ahead as fencing along the lines limit access and drivers of the regular train are vigilant for trespassers and the risk can made even lower by having police ride ahead to check to check the line and surrounding area for signs of trespass and suspicious activity, whereas on the road the police has to close the road by blocking off junctions right before the motorcade gets there and pedestrians can still easily access the area which has led to notable number of security breaches (I not aware of security breaches related to the Royal Train).

JKF · Wednesday at 14:59

BrianW said:
I admit to being pleasantly surprised by the degree of acceptance by Rail Forumites of economic 'realities'.

With some recognition also of environmental realities, and a certain sadness.

The addition of one of the vehicles to the Royal stock at the NRM would make sense, if space can be made without detriment.

Might others provide opportunity as Glamping Coaches?

You could probably sell it to somewhere in the USA for a tidy sum, though they’d probably be expecting something a bit more ornate than maroon MK3s!

Mikey C · Wednesday at 15:31

popeter45 said:
no, they reserve entire carriages if not whole trains

When football teams travel on trains they usually just reserve a whole 1st class carriage, so it's not just for Royals that this happens.

Peter Mugridge · Wednesday at 15:58

Krokodil said:
I suspect that the late Queen's saloon will end up in the NRM, the other saloons might find homes in museums elsewhere. The, kitchen, staff couchette and generator van might have a future use as service vehicles for a charter operator, just as some of the others already have (one couchette is in the Northern Belle formation, Network Rail use another and WCRC have one in storage).

Tim Dunn ( who is on here as @timmydunn ) said on Twitter this morning, and provided a link proving it, that the entire rake is "designated" although of course that doesn't mean the entire rake will actually be accepted by the NRM - but it does mean there's a very good chance that they will all be preserved... just not all in one location.

https://x.com/MrTimDunn/status/1939799036581879841

BTW. The vehicles of the current royal train are designated heritage assets: some clever, decent and informed people called the Railway Heritage Designation Advisory Board will find the best homes for them There’ll be more news before too long, I expect.

Spartacus · Wednesday at 16:58

Mikey C said:
When football teams travel on trains they usually just reserve a whole 1st class carriage, so it's not just for Royals that this happens.

Arsenal used to use the Pretendolino a lot, useful for bringing everyone involved the day before the match, including any kit & equipment.

43096 · Wednesday at 17:58

Peter Mugridge said:
Tim Dunn ( who is on here as @timmydunn ) said on Twitter this morning, and provided a link proving it, that the entire rake is "designated" although of course that doesn't mean the entire rake will actually be accepted by the NRM - but it does mean there's a very good chance that they will all be preserved... just not all in one location.

https://x.com/MrTimDunn/status/1939799036581879841

The RHDAB designation can of course be changed, so you can't read much into it. Various items have been designated, then de-designated over the years.

Take the example of HST sets. There was a class designation that applied with the intent that there would be a "set saved for the nation". That was watered down over the years so that it has ended up as two power cars and one trailer, hardly a set saved for the nation. Preservation of a full HST set has been left to the voluntary preservation sector.

Yorkshire09876 · Wednesday at 18:13

Peter Mugridge said:
Tim Dunn ( who is on here as @timmydunn ) said on Twitter this morning, and provided a link proving it, that the entire rake is "designated" although of course that doesn't mean the entire rake will actually be accepted by the NRM - but it does mean there's a very good chance that they will all be preserved... just not all in one location.

https://x.com/MrTimDunn/status/1939799036581879841

The way it usually works with designated items is that the NRM gets first refusal, and if they don't want it then another suitable preservation body is sought.

FrontSideBus · Wednesday at 18:47

I'd have thought King Charles would have jumped at the chance of putting an electric or bi-mode loco on the end and saying look how green it is, instead of using an areoplane that burns fuel...

Dr Hoo · Wednesday at 19:00

Have there been any statements about how often His Majesty currently uses air transport (within Mainland GB) and how much that is expected to increase in future?

fgwrich · Wednesday at 19:59

Yorkshire09876 said:
The way it usually works with designated items is that the NRM gets first refusal, and if they don't want it then another suitable preservation body is sought.

Indeed, examples include 77382 the DTC of record holding 442401. Now saved by 125 Preservation / Northumbria Rail following a close meeting with the scrap man.

I can’t see all remaining 11 vehicles being preserved in the same place however, and some (eg several of the kitchen cars) may find themselves being de-listed and sold on for other use elsewhere. After all, I believe at least one of the Network Rail Test Trains (977969), plus the Riviera Trains Mk2 Gen Van (17105), are former Royal Train vehicles.

Yorkshire09876 · Wednesday at 20:26

fgwrich said:
Indeed, examples include 77382 the DTC of record holding 442401. Now saved by 125 Preservation / Northumbria Rail following a close meeting with the scrap man.

I can’t see all remaining 11 vehicles being preserved in the same place however, and some (eg several of the kitchen cars) may find themselves being de-listed and sold on for other use elsewhere. After all, I believe at least one of the Network Rail Test Trains (977969), plus the Riviera Trains Mk2 Gen Van (17105), are former Royal Train vehicles.

Several of the Mk3s have been stored for quite a few years - not sure that these will be considered worth preserving.

danielnez1 · Wednesday at 21:37

I had a look back at some of the interior photos of the Mk3 Royal Train coaches, and most of them seem utilitarian/basic inside and would probably not draw interest in visitors to museums (some of them are a bit nicer inside - so I guess those will be the focus of preservation efforts).

In the future I could see the more common booking out of a first class coach on a VIP basis happening, and TBH perhaps even hiring a charter set of coaches would probably be more opulent than using the current Mk3 coaches!

Tomos y Tanc · Wednesday at 21:51

Really guys? No one cares about the Royals any more. Preserving parts of their train might be worth doing, if only to show how entitled the blood-suckers were.

DBS92042 · Thursday at 03:38

Yorkshire09876 said:
Several of the Mk3s have been stored for quite a few years - not sure that these will be considered worth preserving.

Yes indeed, 2918 & 2919 have been out of circulation for around 20 years. I'd be surprised if some parts haven't been picked from them to keep the others going.

2903 & 2904 have also been seemingly retired/stored since the death of Queen Elizabeth II in 2022.

2915/2916/2917/2920/2921/2922/2923 have all be used recently (June 2025) in the Royal Train

yorksrob · Thursday at 07:39

I was on a railtour a few years back and ended up in a couchette compartment carriage which I was told was once in the Royal train.

32475 · Thursday at 15:34

If it hasn’t been suggested before, how about keeping a selection of carriages and a loco at Leith waterfront close to RY Britannia? It would need to be housed in a dedicated building to protect it from salt air corrosion. All subject to an available site and finance of course!

WolvertonWorks · Thursday at 17:26

I was at Milton Keynes Museum today (this is situated on the southern edge of Wolverton) - they have one of the old tramcars from the Deanshanger-Wolverton tram in their Transport building and someone was asking whether the Museum might be getting one of the carriages from the Royal Train to display there - seemed appropriate given the train has been stabled at Wolverton since 1842.

DarloRich · Thursday at 17:30

WolvertonWorks said:
I was at Milton Keynes Museum today (this is situated on the southern edge of Wolverton) - they have one of the old tramcars from the Deanshanger-Wolverton tram in their Transport building and someone was asking whether the Museum might be getting one of the carriages from the Royal Train to display there - seemed appropriate given the train has been stabled at Wolverton since 1842.

Do they have the space? The transport shed seems pretty full

WesternLancer · Thursday at 18:29

WolvertonWorks said:
I was at Milton Keynes Museum today (this is situated on the southern edge of Wolverton) - they have one of the old tramcars from the Deanshanger-Wolverton tram in their Transport building and someone was asking whether the Museum might be getting one of the carriages from the Royal Train to display there - seemed appropriate given the train has been stabled at Wolverton since 1842.

Very appropriate. Just the right excuse to get the lottery to pay for some new space!

WolvertonWorks · 2025-07-05T17:21:55+0100

WesternLancer said:
Very appropriate. Just the right excuse to get the lottery to pay for some new space!

Royal Train memories from Phil Marsh on the BBC website: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8g55jqnxvo

"Travels with the Queen recalled as royal train nears end"

The photo shows it outside the bit of the Works that was turned into housing, not near the current royal train shed.

End of the Royal Train: alternative uses and what might have been

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"Travels with the Queen recalled as royal train nears end"​

"Travels with the Queen recalled as royal train nears end"