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Should Waterloo and services to South east be extended beyond Exeter again?

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PaxmanValenta

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I remember up until the early 2000s you could travel from Plymouth to Waterloo, Portsmouth and even Brighton without having to change trains. The last TOC to do this was South West trains. Now they don't go any further west than Exeter :(
Why did they stop this service?

I certainly think there would be demand for Waterloo services from Plymouth as the FGW Plymouth to Paddington service is very popular and in high demand in the morning. It would give people more choice, and Waterloo is a closer commute to the City and Docklands. It would also allow people in Plymouth to reach East Devon, Dorset and Hampshire without changing.
 
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Mike99

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PaxmanValenta said:
I remember up until the early 2000s you could travel from Plymouth to Waterloo, Portsmouth and even Brighton without having to change trains. The last TOC to do this was South West trains. Now they don't go any further west than Exeter :(
Why did they stop this service?

I certainly think there would be demand for Waterloo services from Plymouth as the FGW Plymouth to Paddington service is very popular and in high demand in the morning. It would give people more choice, and Waterloo is a closer commute to the City and Docklands. It would also allow people in Plymouth to reach East Devon, Dorset and Hampshire without changing.
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I think the services beyond Exeter stopped around 2009 when the WAT - EXD service bexame hourly requiring a bit of extra stock, allowed primarily by the Axminster loop being added, I'm probably going to be corrected though!
 
NSE

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Nah I believe that was the case, at least as far as I know. There was also something about FGW crews taking the train onwards to Plymouth, however they sign 158's and although they took the 159's, it came down from above that they shouldn't be crewing them as they didn't sign them. It was something like that, I don't know for sure, I read it on here once.
 
Juniper Driver

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NSE said:
Nah I believe that was the case, at least as far as I know. There was also something about FGW crews taking the train onwards to Plymouth, however they sign 158's and although they took the 159's, it came down from above that they shouldn't be crewing them as they didn't sign them. It was something like that, I don't know for sure, I read it on here once.
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That's a bit strange though.It's a one day conversion for us,or at least it was and a bit of paper.Very little difference between them.AFAIK.
 
louis97

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NSE said:
Nah I believe that was the case, at least as far as I know. There was also something about FGW crews taking the train onwards to Plymouth, however they sign 158's and although they took the 159's, it came down from above that they shouldn't be crewing them as they didn't sign them. It was something like that, I don't know for sure, I read it on here once.
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FGW crew only took the Penzance service from Exeter and back, the Plymouth and Paignton services were crewed by SWT throughout. The service to Penzance was booked a 158, although in its later days 159s did used to appear a fair amount.
 
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swt_passenger

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Mike99 said:
I think the services beyond Exeter stopped around 2009 when the WAT - EXD service bexame hourly requiring a bit of extra stock, allowed primarily by the Axminster loop being added, I'm probably going to be corrected though!
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No need, that is exactly what happened. And FGW were subsequently contracted to fill in most of the timetable gaps beyond Exeter.

Southern now run an hourly Southampton to Brighton service 7 days a week. It's far more useful than the occasional SWT trains that ran one or two services, and only on Sat and Sun
 
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Matt Taylor

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Juniper Driver said:
That's a bit strange though.It's a one day conversion for us,or at least it was and a bit of paper.Very little difference between them.AFAIK.
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For guards 158s and 159s are the same traction course!

I think when the improvements to the WoE line are complete and perhaps new stock (222s?) arrive SWT will be in a good position to be better competition to First and will pree to extend services beyond Exeter again.

Of course if SWT goes to First in 2019 anything could happen.
 
dk1

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The many times I used SWT serviced West of Exeter they where always SWTs Crews. Couldn't comment on the once a week Penzance as it was cancelled both times I tried to use it.

I very much doubt they will happen again due to the increased frequency Waterloo-Exeter & the planned frequency increase Axminster-Exeter as well as the doubling of the FGW Exmouth-Paignton to half-hourly along with the extension of the hourly Cardiff-Taunton through to Penzance.
 
CC 72100

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Short answer: no.

Paths down the sea wall towards Newton Abbot are limited and with desire for Paignton stopper/slow service to be 2x hourly, this situation is only going to get worse.

As it stands, as another poster has says, they only have enough 159s to either have a more irregular service or to have Exeter as hourly. Considering this finite amount of resources, I can well imagine an hourly service to Exeter being more profitable and well-used than a pootle off to Paignton/Plymouth/Cornwall.
 
iantherev

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While I suppose it's flattering that so many people want to 'improve' our train service it works very well as it is and numbers have increased since it went hourly and if anything there are a number of 3 car services that could do with strengthening rather than sending stock off further west.
In any case according to the media in the region the main complaint of Plymouth - London passengers seems to be that the trains need to be faster, which is not going to be achieved by extending Waterloo trains.
 
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Damn it I love 159s possibly the finest train on the network

The upkeep of them is outstanding

A shame I never got to experience these lost services wasn't aware paignton from brighton was weekend only but recall announcements at Chichester

How frequent was the brighton to reading ormdid most only go to Basingstoke ?
 
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swt_passenger

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ml said:
How frequent was the brighton to reading ormdid most only go to Basingstoke ?
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Reading was served roughly 3 hourly, but not all day, with Basingstoke being the destination for 2 out of 3 through trains. But not all of them ran to/from Brighton, in the morning peak some trains in the relevant paths ran from Portsmouth to Basingstoke(Reading) or Waterloo, and in the afternoon peak they ran down from Waterloo or Basingstoke to Portsmouth. Some of these peak extra trains still run.

During the day a couple of trains on the route were short turns, i.e. Basingstoke to Fareham and vice versa to make room for the FGW Brighton services, which back then ran in the same paths as SWT used during the rest of the day. There was of course no connection at Fareham, with the up train to Basingstoke departing from P2 just before the FGW arrived in P1 from Brighton

An old timetable I have shows:

5 Departures from Reading at 0656, 1004, 1301, 1601, 1901 all through to Brighton and a 2155 terminating at Portsmouth Hbr.

Departures from Brighton were at 0750, 0957, hourly until 1557, then 1757 and 1857. Only the 0957, 1257, 1557 and 1857 ran Brighton to Reading

All things considered, I think some people have an exaggerated recollection of how wonderful the service between Brighton and Reading actually was.

Edited to add an extract from the Feb 2007 SWT CWNs as an attachment. This reflects the period when some services were 158 operated between Brighton and Basingstoke to allow 450s to be internally cascaded.
 

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FenMan

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swt_passenger said:
Reading was served roughly 3 hourly, but not all day, with Basingstoke being the destination for 2 out of 3 through trains. But not all of them ran to/from Brighton, in the morning peak trains in the relevant paths ran from Portsmouth to Basingstoke or Waterloo, and in the afternoon peak they ran down from Waterloo or Basingstoke to Portsmouth. Some of these peak extra trains still run.

During the day a couple of trains on the route were short turns, i.e. Basingstoke to Fareham and vice versa to make room for the FGW Brighton services, which back then ran in the same paths as SWT used during the rest of the day. There was of course no connection at Fareham, with the up train to Basingstoke departing from P2 just before the FGW arrived in P1 from Brighton

An old timetable I have shows:

4 Departures from Reading at 0656, 1004, 1301, 1601 all through to Brighton and a 2155 terminating at Cosham.

Departures from Brighton were at 0750, 0957, hourly until 1557, then 1757 and 1857. Only the 0957, 1257, 1557 and 1857 ran Brighton to Reading

All things considered, I think some people have an exaggerated recollection of how wonderful the service between Brighton and Reading actually was.

Edited to add an extract from the Feb 2007 SWT CWNs as an attachment. This reflects the period when some services were 158 operated between Brighton and Basingstoke.
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When the Reading - Gatwicks go twice-hourly in 2017 Reading - Brighton passengers will be amply catered for with reasonable end to end journey times (particularly if the 10 minute minimum change time at Gatwick is ignored).
 
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Martin_1981

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I think the only chance of the Waterloo services possibly ever running beyond Exeter again is if the old London & South Western route to Plymouth via Okehampton and Tavistock was ever to be re-opened as a Dawlish bypass route. They could call at Crediton, Okehampton and Tavistock to give these towns maybe two or three direct services to and from the capital every day.

I don't really see the point in reintroducing a Waterloo-Paignton & Plymouth service again otherwise.
 
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30907

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Bear in mind that the workings W of Exeter were essentially in marginal time (except the Penzance which was a joint operation IIRC) so only made a limited contribution to local travel needs.
 
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PHILIPE

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They did run to Devon but how many holiday makers did they bring to Paignton then ? When they were withdrawn they were not withdrawn with bringing them back in mind.
 
TheWalrus

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PHILIPE said:
They did run to Devon but how many holiday makers did they bring to Paignton then ? When they were withdrawn they were not withdrawn with bringing them back in mind.
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Don't know and obviously. How many do the summer saturday Paddington to Paignton bring in?
 
Aictos

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Before The SWT Alliance evens thinks of extending past Exeter, they need to improve Exeter to Waterloo be it more trains, faster trains or another way to improve the service.

Extending past Exeter is a pipe dream that can wait when there are more important issues to be resolved.
 
dk1

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TheWalrus said:
Don't know and obviously. How many do the summer saturday Paddington to Paignton bring in?
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Usually around 100 on Summer Saturday HSTs by the time they reach the Torbay branch. These trains tend to be stoppers down the Berks & Hants extended into devon & doing the honours at Dawlish Warren, Dawlish & Teignmouth.

The loadings on the SWT services where ok when they ran beyond Exeter but there wasn't that much through traffic with much being local & hence the units could be far better utilised on an enhanced core network.

There have been rumours of a Devon franchise to cover all diesel trains to/from the South West & this includes the Waterloo route. This may offer a glimour of hope but i wouldnt hold my breath. The sums just do not add up.
 
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