Ticket issuing query

Ive bought several Scotrail £1 tickets from VTEC.
When VTEC take their commission for selling the ticket, and TPE do as well (collected from their machine), will ScotRail actually get any money at all?

AIUI, VTEC get around 10% for selling the ticket, but it is they who will have to pay TPE for issuing it. The amount will vary by how it was issued. The remaining 90% (approx.) of the fare gets distributed in a process called ORCATS, which most people know very little about, unless the fare is a TOC only ticket.

hairyhandedfool:2422435 said:

AIUI, VTEC get around 10% for selling the ticket, but it is they who will have to pay TPE for issuing it. The amount will vary by how it was issued. The remaining 90% (approx.) of the fare gets distributed in a process called ORCATS, which most people know very little about, unless the fare is a TOC only ticket.

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ahh, suppose it makes sense for VTEC to have to pay TPE rather than Scotrail, given VTEC sold the ticket!

Cheap tickets result in a loss for the ticket retailer, unless you collect it from one of their machines.

ToD collection fee is around 90p per booking iirc.

So by buying discounted £1 fares at 65p each and doing ToD it is actually costing the TOCs 25p a pop..

trivran said:

So by buying discounted £1 fares at 65p each and doing ToD it is actually costing the TOCs 25p a pop..

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Buying a £1 fare online in a transaction and collecting using a different TOC's machines certainly costs the retailer money (more than 25p).

The poor things! I almost feel quite sorry for them.

I think we are becoming confused here. The reason retailers make a loss on cheap tickets is usually because of fees charged by card providers and other costs to them of running the service.

I was under the impression that sale commission is lower online than it is at a ticket office? Also, the ToD fees are lower at a machine than they are at a ticket office?


However, I think that Virgin Trains East Coast (and I'm going out on a limb, here) will be in the ORCATS allocation for the ticket you have bought because it is valid on their services between Edinburgh and Inverness.

Starmill said:

I was under the impression that sale commission is lower online than it is at a ticket office.

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Agreed. I remember some of the independent retailers complaining here when the reduced online rate started. IIRC, commission was then 9% at a ticket office and 5% online. I don't know whether these are still the rates.

Starmill said:

the ToD fees are lower at a machine than they are at a ticket office

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That would make sense.

Starmill said:

I think that Virgin Trains East Coast ... will be in the ORCATS allocation for the ticket you have bought because it is valid on their services between Edinburgh and Inverness.

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If the ticket is valid for Edinburgh - Inverness travel then VTEC will receive a proportion of the remainder after selling and printing costs. IIRC, Barry Doe stated in RAIL magazine that the amount allocated to a particular part of a journey, such as Edinburgh - Inverness in this case, is the proportion that the part forms of the total mileage. I think he then went on to say that, for a part of a journey where there only one permitted route, the amount allocated to each train company is the proportion of seats in the relevant class that the train company is scheduled to provide on the day of travel (taking no account of time of day).

Rates of commission are there for all to see in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement:

• Season Tickets: 2% regardless of sales channel
• Other "basic" products:
  • On a train: 9%
  • At a station where it is Lead Retailer: 9%
  • Impartial Telephone Sales Office: 9%
  • Impartial Internet site: 5% (until 31st March 2019)
  • Business Travel service: 3%
  • Anywhere else: Nil, except by agreement with the Operators which are bound to honour the ticket
• ToD from a TVM: 40p per booking (as opposed to per ticket)
• ToD from a Ticket Office: 90p per booking

The 0% commission at stations where it is not the Lead Retailer is why the Gatwick Express Ticket Office at London Victoria (which I believe is still treated as separate for commission purposes) only sells tickets for travel on GTR services branded Gatwick Express.

I would also surmise that the necessary agreements are in place for the VTEC Travel Centre at Stevenage and the suburban ticket office at Euston so that commission is paid at the normal rates.