Caledonian Sleeper discussion

Caleb2010 · 6 Aug 2017

I'm sure I read somewhere that later this year mk5 sleepers will start operating on the Glasgow/Edinburgh to Euston services before the rollout to the rest in April.

Not before time either, last nights Inverness portion had a defective accessible loo door, as did the berth next to it, I did the walk at Edinburgh at 1 in the morning down to the Aberdeen portion only to find the door there sticking as well!

Coupled with a defective coach on the Fort William it wasn't a good night for Caledonian Sleeper!!

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MylesHSG · 6 Aug 2017

To be fair to CS I've noticed a few more coaches than normal heading into Stonebride Park heavy repair depot than usual over the past few weeks. Creates a bit more work for me, but I'm sure they're crossing their fingers that the current stock lasts until the mk5's are ready.

StephenHunter · 6 Aug 2017

Blindtraveler said:
Likewise, last journey for me was Feb and Edinburgh seats heating failed after the guard had buggered off and there was no buffet iether.

Still, cudos that they are trying to keep it going, this will hopefully be the last summer season with the BR vintage stock which from their POV will be a good thing

I may well take another trip on this once the new stock arrives; the old stuff was clearly showing its age and creaked at speed when I was on it last year.

47271 · 6 Aug 2017

TimboM said:
It says more specifically "April 2018" on their website and that's the date they stick to on Twitter when asked (and has been all along).

As Scotrail84 says, though - I'll believe it when I see it/them all fully in service on 1 April 2018 (or even 30 April...!)

Fair enough, if they say so, April it is then!

More likely that there'll be some new stock running in the UK by April 2018. What proportion of CS services will be operated by it is something else.

Mind you, look at the shambles with the premature introduction of VTEC's new website this week. Better that the stock is properly tested and reliable than all in by a deadline. They can just about get away with rickety 40 year old stock, can you imagine the outcry over failures in the new trains?

LeylandLen · 6 Aug 2017

Good Friday 2018 is 30th March , so Easter Sunday is 1st April so you would think CS would want some new stock for the busy Easter holidays ?
I assume CS will need some testing of the new stock before introduction on service , needing some proving and running in ?

Clansman · 6 Aug 2017

LeylandLen said:
I assume CS will need some testing of the new stock before introduction on service , needing some proving and running in ?

They were due to test their new stock last month in Velim, but that clearly hasn't happened for whatever reason.

Scotrail84 · 6 Aug 2017

There are only 5 fully completed vehicles. 1 Brake, lounge, slep, sle and a sled. There are 35-40 body shells built but that is all.

181 · 6 Aug 2017

Does anyone have any experience of sending complaints or comments to the Caledonian Sleeper people?

About a month ago I sent them a complaint after trying unsuccessfully to use their website to book a interavailable off-peak return ticket and a reservation in the seated coach -- the site tried to tell me that I didn't need a reservation, which if I hadn't known better would have put me at risk of being stranded overnight at Euston or spending the night on the floor in the vestibule. I still haven't had any reply. (The journey itself was fine). Last year my brother contacted them about the unhelpfulness (verging on rudeness) of the (Scotrail) guard on the Fort William portion when he complained about the lack of heating in the rather decrepit half brake coach that was replacing the proper seated overnight coach, and he never got a reply.

(I also tried the Great Western site for my booking last month, but the new version wouldn't work on my computer; a complaint about this resulted in an immediate automatic acknowledgement, and a rather generic reply a week or so later. I eventually made the booking using loco2.com, and sent them some comments about a couple of minor issues; they sent me an intelligent reply addressing my points the next day. Presumably that's the advantage of a small organization where you're dealing directly with people who are interested in what they're doing).

Tim R-T-C · 6 Aug 2017

I don't know about CS in particular, but Twitter is a great way to get a response. I had a long term complaint with DB last year which was taking forever to resolve, a brief twitter conversation and results in a couple of days.

47271 · 6 Aug 2017

Twitter aside, [email protected] should get you an automated acknowledgement within minutes and a full reply within two or three days. Politely chase them if you get nothing within that timescale.

They're very decent, they just miss things sometimes. Also, your cases are retrospective so might not be given the same priority as bookings ahead, which they are very sharp on.

TimboM · 7 Aug 2017

181 said:
Does anyone have any experience of sending complaints or comments to the Caledonian Sleeper people?

About a month ago I sent them a complaint after trying unsuccessfully to use their website to book a interavailable off-peak return ticket and a reservation in the seated coach -- the site tried to tell me that I didn't need a reservation, which if I hadn't known better would have put me at risk of being stranded overnight at Euston or spending the night on the floor in the vestibule. I still haven't had any reply. (The journey itself was fine). Last year my brother contacted them about the unhelpfulness (verging on rudeness) of the (Scotrail) guard on the Fort William portion when he complained about the lack of heating in the rather decrepit half brake coach that was replacing the proper seated overnight coach, and he never got a reply.

47271 said:
Twitter aside, [email protected] should get you an automated acknowledgement within minutes and a full reply within two or three days. Politely chase them if you get nothing within that timescale.

They're very decent, they just miss things sometimes. Also, your cases are retrospective so might not be given the same priority as bookings ahead, which they are very sharp on.

They do seem to be a bit hit and miss on Twitter, but there's usually a few people chasing up on replies to complaints on there and they either arrange to DM them or point them in the direction of the email 47271's provided above.

You could also try phoning between 9.00am-5.00pm when the Guest Services staff are on (the people on overnight manning Twitter etc. are there only really for current service disruptions/travel enquiries etc, and even then they seem to struggle knowing what's going on sometimes...!)

TimboM · 7 Aug 2017

Scotrail84 said:
There are only 5 fully completed vehicles. 1 Brake, lounge, slep, sle and a sled. There are 35-40 body shells built but that is all.

Sounds promising for 8-9 months time then...

Scotrail84 · 7 Aug 2017

TimboM said:
Sounds promising for 8-9 months time then...

Think about new rolling stock throughout various tocs, how many times have they been introduced on time?

Hadders · 7 Aug 2017

181 said:
Does anyone have any experience of sending complaints or comments to the Caledonian Sleeper people?

About a month ago I sent them a complaint after trying unsuccessfully to use their website to book a interavailable off-peak return ticket and a reservation in the seated coach -- the site tried to tell me that I didn't need a reservation, which if I hadn't known better would have put me at risk of being stranded overnight at Euston or spending the night on the floor in the vestibule. I still haven't had any reply. (The journey itself was fine). Last year my brother contacted them about the unhelpfulness (verging on rudeness) of the (Scotrail) guard on the Fort William portion when he complained about the lack of heating in the rather decrepit half brake coach that was replacing the proper seated overnight coach, and he never got a reply.

(I also tried the Great Western site for my booking last month, but the new version wouldn't work on my computer; a complaint about this resulted in an immediate automatic acknowledgement, and a rather generic reply a week or so later. I eventually made the booking using loco2.com, and sent them some comments about a couple of minor issues; they sent me an intelligent reply addressing my points the next day. Presumably that's the advantage of a small organization where you're dealing directly with people who are interested in what they're doing).

They're generally very good and often respond within 24 hours. That said they seem to be ignoring me know - I asked for a complaint about lack of seat reservations when between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh to be escalated to a manager. I've heard absolutely nothing despite chasing it twice...

Scotrail84 · 7 Aug 2017

Hadders said:
They're generally very good and often respond within 24 hours. That said they seem to be ignoring me know - I asked for a complaint about lack of seat reservations when between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh to be escalated to a manager. I've heard absolutely nothing despite chasing it twice...

If its the old virgin coach thats in the rake then reservation labels do not match the layout of the coach. I think the reservation labels are all printed at London for Northbound services including the Edinburgh to Ft William portion, if that is the case I think these should really be printed at Edinburgh imo.

Bletchleyite · 7 Aug 2017

Scotrail84 said:
If its the old virgin coach thats in the rake then reservation labels do not match the layout of the coach. I think the reservation labels are all printed at London for Northbound services including the Edinburgh to Ft William portion, if that is the case I think these should really be printed at Edinburgh imo.

IME reservations are never placed in the Fort William coach at Edinburgh whether it is a "proper" one or the ex-VT one. There isn't a lot of point as very few people join it there (as it's such an unsocial hour) and it by definition can't be full (because everyone from London has to have come from the Aberdeen coach). People may well want to move around anyway e.g. to get a double seat if previously next to another FW passenger.

DuncanS · 7 Aug 2017

Having done Glasgow to FW a couple of months ago - it causes confusion for people getting on when there are no actual reservations in the carriage.

There were 7 of us from Glasgow but that had more than doubled when we reached Crainlarich as we picked up a lot of people heading for Rannoch.

Hadders · 7 Aug 2017

Scotrail84 said:
If its the old virgin coach thats in the rake then reservation labels do not match the layout of the coach. I think the reservation labels are all printed at London for Northbound services including the Edinburgh to Ft William portion, if that is the case I think these should really be printed at Edinburgh imo.

The issue is trying to get a reservation between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh. According to the timetable it's 'Compulsory Reservations' but stations can't issue them nor can any websites I've tried (specifically I was trying to travel from Mallaig to Glasgow Queen Street with an Anytime Day Single).

CS just gave me a load of wibble so I asked for it to be escalated further. Heard nothing.

This matters because it's the last train of the day and I suspect CS would like to quietly drop its obligation to carry passengers between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh when the new trains come in. No doubt they'll say there's no demand having made it impossible to obtain reservations for a service where they are compulsory.

Bletchleyite · 7 Aug 2017

Hadders said:
This matters because it's the last train of the day and I suspect CS would like to quietly drop its obligation to carry passengers between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh when the new trains come in. No doubt they'll say there's no demand having made it impossible to obtain reservations for a service where they are compulsory.

Yes I suspect they probably would like to do so.

Common sense would probably say to order another Mk5b TSO on the TPE order for it, and keep sleeper and day passengers separate with the latter being a virtual ScotRail service, but common sense is rarely applied.

FWIW compulsory reservations are not enforced for local passengers, but they keep that very quiet.

Hadders · 7 Aug 2017

Bletchleyite said:
Yes I suspect they probably would like to do so.

Common sense would probably say to order another Mk5b TSO on the TPE order for it, and keep sleeper and day passengers separate with the latter being a virtual ScotRail service, but common sense is rarely applied.

FWIW compulsory reservations are not enforced for local passengers, but they keep that very quiet.

I've made several complaints about this since CS took over (it was never a problem when First ran the service - they even did cheap Advance tickets between Mallaig and Edinburgh). Some of the wibble I've been told includes:

- we're a new company and we haven't got round to sorting it yet
- you don't need a reservation on that service (but the timetable says you do!)
- we prioritise passengers travelling to London (which is why I want a reservation)
- it's never been possible to get a reservation if you're only going to Glasgow (actually it was until CS took over - I've got several of them too to prove it!)

Perhaps someone from CS reading this could arrange for it to be sorted it out....

Scotrail84 · 7 Aug 2017

92 032 for 1S25 this evening after 014 was declared a failure.

92 023 will work 1S26

47271 · 7 Aug 2017

Hadders said:
The issue is trying to get a reservation between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh. According to the timetable it's 'Compulsory Reservations' but stations can't issue them nor can any websites I've tried (specifically I was trying to travel from Mallaig to Glasgow Queen Street with an Anytime Day Single).

CS just gave me a load of wibble so I asked for it to be escalated further. Heard nothing.

This matters because it's the last train of the day and I suspect CS would like to quietly drop its obligation to carry passengers between Fort William and Glasgow/Edinburgh when the new trains come in. No doubt they'll say there's no demand having made it impossible to obtain reservations for a service where they are compulsory.

Get on to Transport Scotland about it. They supervise the CS contract and if a local service between FW and the Central Belt is a franchise commitment, then TS need to make sure that it gets delivered. If they're trying to avoid that then it's a more significant story than the Scotrail punctuality rubbish printed on the front page of The Herald this morning.

Don't get me wrong, I think Serco are totally going in the right direction with the sleeper generally, but they're off the hook with the Inverness commuter service now that we have the Scotrail HML red eye. They need to be made to pay attention to what they've signed up to on the West Highland.

Caleb2010 · 7 Aug 2017

92023 bought the highlander stock into Euston, don't know what's on front now as I'm at the back!

BRX · 7 Aug 2017

47271 said:
They need to be made to pay attention to what they've signed up to on the West Highland.

Absolutely. The "regular" service on the sleeper in both directions is a very useful one and it should be actively promoted if anything. I'm sure lots of people who don't even know it exists might potentially make use of it. Especially in the summer for example it allows you a full day's walking in the west highlands if you live in Glasgow and don't have a car. In fact it will let you walk places that you can't easily get to by car. Seeing as the WHL has survived, and is still there, we should be encouraging people to use it as much as possible.

Serco shouldn't be allowed to try and quietly brush it under the carpet because it's not relevant to their interests. They signed the contract. I'd encourage anyone finding difficulty booking tickets (and it seems to have been going on for a while now) to make a fuss with Transport Scotland.

The fact that the "compulsory reservations" aren't enforced is no excuse - people will be put off travelling if they don't know this. Either they should sort their booking system out, or it should not be marked as such in the timetable. It surprises me they've been getting away with this for so long now - I doubt this would be tolerated if it was a regular TOC doing it on a less obscure service.

Caleb2010 · 7 Aug 2017

I do now!!

Blindtraveler · 7 Aug 2017

I dont think TS care to be totally honest.

47271 · 7 Aug 2017

Blindtraveler said:
I dont think TS care to be totally honest.

Maybe they don't right now, but if someone managed to get it in the press - as we both know today it doesn't take much - then they might be made to.

I couldn't do this myself with any integrity since I only use the sleeper in any capacity once or twice a year, and never on the FW route, but I'd suggest that a group of people who are being deterred from travel could make quite a strong and embarassing case.

TimboM · 7 Aug 2017

Scotrail84 said:
92 032 for 1S25 this evening after 014 was declared a failure.

92 023 will work 1S26

Caleb2010 said:
I do now!!

Been a long time since 92032 has worked a Sleeper (other than ECS). A good 6 months or so, if not more. Good luck Caleb2010!

92018 is at Willesden so presumably stopped currently as would have been the more obvious substitute.
92028 also there, but not had any form of run out with coaching stock (e.g. ECS) since it's 2+ year stay in Loughborough, so makes sense that's not being used.

181 · 7 Aug 2017

Thankyou for the replies to my question about complaints -- I'll try the e-mail address (for this year's booking issue -- last year is water under the bridge). I used the website form before, as the only e-mail addresses on the Contact page are for refunds, group travel or media enquiries. (Why do they have an e-mail address that they don't tell people about, I wonder?)

Does the ex-VT coach still appear often on the Fort William route? And have they cleaned the windows since I used it just over a year ago?

Scotrail84 · 7 Aug 2017

Caleb2010 said:
92023 bought the highlander stock into Euston, don't know what's on front now as I'm at the back!

Are you on the highlander?

TimboM said:
Been a long time since 92032 has worked a Sleeper (other than ECS). A good 6 months or so, if not more. Good luck Caleb2010!

92018 is at Willesden so presumably stopped currently as would have been the more obvious substitute.
92028 also there, but not had any form of run out with coaching stock (e.g. ECS) since it's 2+ year stay in Loughborough, so makes sense that's not being used.

14 failed with a traction motor fault and had main res issues at Edinburgh last night.

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