East Linton and Reston re-openings delayed

railjock · 17 Jun 2015

Not sure that this is new news.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...promise-on-reviving-village-station-1-3804385

PARIS GOURTSOYANNIS said:
...Campaigners say they are very concerned after being told by ScotRail that the planned reopening of East Linton station will be delayed by up to two years.

After a long campaign by the Rail Action Group East of Scotland (Rages), returning rail services to East Linton and Reston in the Borders was written into the contract for new ScotRail franchise holder Abellio, which took over the railways in April.

The commitment was underlined in November last year, with Scottish Government minister Paul Wheelhouse saying the service could begin as early as December 2016.

However, campaigners have now been told there wont be enough trains to serve East Linton which sits on the East Coast Main Line between Dunbar and Drem until 2018....

RailUK Forums

DaveNewcastle · 17 Jun 2015

Yes, there has been some discussion already :

Station reopenings in Scotland / CP5 £30m Scottish Stations Fund

Expansions for Scotlands rail network proposed

Scotrail Turbostars moving to Southern

Options for further rail reopenings in the Scottish Borders

New Stations (proposed and under construction)

gimmea50anyday · 18 Jun 2015

The stations being opened would need to tie in with the introduction of an hourly stopper from Newcastle to Edinburgh, which would improve services along the whole Northumberland and Lothian coast. The claim there is no demand for these services. I Think there is no demand because there is no service! With skip stop XC and EC to get from morpeth or alnmouth to berwick involves changing trains at newcastle, if you want dunbar you may have to change at Edinburgh aswell. A ridiculous situation!

A stopper calling at cramlington, morpeth (ashington and blyth connections) alnmouth, chathill, berwick, linton, dunbar, Musselburgh (for north berwick) , wallyford and so on (im sure the pedants will correct me with different stations but its 2am! ) has potential of offering new and better connections and journeys along the whole route. Then all EC's can maintain the berwick stop adding morpeth alnmouth and dunbar on morning and evening services and XC can either run fast or stop at berwick only. There would also be an advantage with adding an EC TPE with the morpeth, alnmouth, berwick, dunbar and musselburgh stops in only. As an alternate service with the stopper.

These are just my thoughts tho....

Tommy1581 · 18 Jun 2015

gimmea50anyday said:
A stopper calling at cramlington, morpeth (ashington and blyth connections) alnmouth, chathill, berwick, linton, dunbar, Musselburgh (for north berwick) , wallyford and so on (im sure the pedants will correct me with different stations but its 2am! ) has potential of offering new and better connections and journeys along the whole route.

Aye.

Manors, Cramlington, Morpeth, Pegswood, Widdrington, [I won't bother with] Acklington, Alnmouth, Chathill, [SENRUG wants] Belford and Beal, Berwick, then all of the stops to Edinburgh

glbotu · 19 Jun 2015

Tommy1581 said:
Aye.

Manors, Cramlington, Morpeth, Pegswood, Widdrington, [I won't bother with] Acklington, Alnmouth, Chathill, [SENRUG wants] Belford and Beal, Berwick, then all of the stops to Edinburgh

Assuming the hourly-ish Morpeth - Metrocentre continues to run, an extra hourly Newcastle - Morpeth would probably be warranted, with stops at Cramlington and Manors. Extra stops at Alnmouth and Berwick are probably good, but Widdrington, Pegswood, Acklington and Chathill are tiny and could probably have a similar level of service as they do now, but just added on to the Newcastle - Edinburgh stopper.

jopsuk · 19 Jun 2015

to make those stoppers work, surely you'd have to have many, if not mos, of the platforms on loops to avoid slowing down the existing VTEC and XC services?

Xenophon PCDGS · 19 Jun 2015

jopsuk said:
to make those stoppers work, surely you'd have to have many, if not mos, of the platforms on loops to avoid slowing down the existing VTEC and XC services?

What would be the likely total financial costs involved be in what is stated above?

bluenoxid · 20 Jun 2015

jopsuk said:
to make those stoppers work, surely you'd have to have many, if not mos, of the platforms on loops to avoid slowing down the existing VTEC and XC services?

There are not many of those trains and they are grouped together IIRC. Depending on departure times, they might need looping. The big question is what the train does in Edinburgh suburbs.

Stats · 20 Jun 2015

An extended TPE service between Newcastle and Edinburgh is modelled in 2020 ECML capacity study Network Rail did for the ORR for the current track access applications. Calling at Cramlington, Morpeth, Alnmouth, Berwick and Dunbar it takes approximately 1hr 49mins to Edinburgh with Class 380 timing loads, approximately 17 mins slower than a non-stop Class 800 and 22 mins slower than a non-stop Class 390.

reb0118 · 20 Jun 2015

Just wondering why a lack of trains would influence the re opening of East Linton? It lies to the west of Dunbar and the current ScotRail service already passes the site.

railjock · 21 Jun 2015

reb0118 said:
Just wondering why a lack of trains would influence the re opening of East Linton? It lies to the west of Dunbar and the current ScotRail service already passes the site.

Only a handful of scotrail services to dunbar though.

MarkRedon · 9 Sep 2016

SENRUG is once again campaigning for an hourly stopper - a "North Sea Coast" running between Metrocentre, Newcastle and Edinburgh. See: http://www.berwick-advertiser.co.uk...rth-sea-coast-rail-service-launched-1-4226031

The aim of a new campaign is for a local rail service to run from Morpeth to the north Northumberland border, every hour of the day. Dubbed the North Sea Coast route, the South East Northumberland Rail User Group (SENRUG) wants to see the existing Metrocentre to Morpeth rail link extended north to Berwick, with Belford and Beal stations re-opened en route.

The accompanying article makes it clear that the proposal is to combine a Newcastle to Morpeth service with the hoped-for Edinburgh to Berwick local service.

What would be the minimum infrastructure changes required so that this proposal would not impact excessively on route performance? Are they affordable, and when?

glbotu · 12 Sep 2016

MarkRedon said:
SENRUG is once again campaigning for an hourly stopper - a "North Sea Coast" running between Metrocentre, Newcastle and Edinburgh. See: http://www.berwick-advertiser.co.uk...rth-sea-coast-rail-service-launched-1-4226031

The accompanying article makes it clear that the proposal is to combine a Newcastle to Morpeth service with the hoped-for Edinburgh to Berwick local service.

What would be the minimum infrastructure changes required so that this proposal would not impact excessively on route performance? Are they affordable, and when?

So, I had a bit of time the other day, and mapped out the timetable in an excel spreadsheet. Currently, it's pretty "gappy", even in the highest frequency bit, from Heaton North Junction to Newcastle. Once you're North of Morpeth you've got a maximum of 3 tph, spread out pretty happily. Provided no-one's too sad about losing the direct link to the MetroCentre, you could easily replace the current 142 or 156 with something released from AGA (like a 360 or 379) which would have both better acceleration and better top speed, helping it to fit nicely between the intercity services. No infrastructure required, because the current ECML infrastructure is already electrified. The reason they still have to run as DMUs (other than not having micro-fleets) is the short section of track used to reverse the service is not electrified. Currently, there's an 11 minute gap between the Northern stopper arriving at Morpeth and the following XC service. That could be hugely improved by replacing the Morpeth stopper with a faster EMU, that could cover Manors - Cramlington (9.35 miles) and Cramlington - Morpeth (6.7 miles) in a similar time, assuming a similar departure from Newcastle. The bigger difficulty would possibly be a concern with catching up the Freight that's pathed before it every hour (it might even be sensible to path the stopper first in this case).

TheKnightWho · 12 Sep 2016

glbotu said:
Assuming the hourly-ish Morpeth - Metrocentre continues to run, an extra hourly Newcastle - Morpeth would probably be warranted, with stops at Cramlington and Manors. Extra stops at Alnmouth and Berwick are probably good, but Widdrington, Pegswood, Acklington and Chathill are tiny and could probably have a similar level of service as they do now, but just added on to the Newcastle - Edinburgh stopper.

Widdrington has a population of 2,750 and Pegswood one of 3,300 - definitely justifying a much improved service! The other two you're possibly right.

bluenoxid · 12 Sep 2016

Potentially they may want to put this in addition to the stopper to Morpeth.

Bletchleyite · 12 Sep 2016

I like the idea of naming and branding it - gives it a good sales pitch, and has seemed to work well in Germany - new or refurbished rolling stock, a nice name and a consistent Taktfahrplan on regional lines = increased passenger numbers. I think we should give consideration to using this approach in the UK a bit more - perhaps AGA/AEA could try it with their new regional units on the branches.

It could perhaps be called the "North Sea Coastliner" as noted?

Did anyone else imagine "delayed by up to 2 years" in Phil Sayer's accent?

tbtc · 12 Sep 2016

glbotu said:
Widdrington, Pegswood, Acklington and Chathill are tiny and could probably have a similar level of service as they do now

I'd struggle to see any justification for significantly increasing the services to these stations (beyond the usual Forum "if you build it, they will come" optimism that tends to crop up when discussing minor rural stations...).

glbotu said:
So, I had a bit of time the other day, and mapped out the timetable in an excel spreadsheet. Currently, it's pretty "gappy", even in the highest frequency bit, from Heaton North Junction to Newcastle

Fair enough, but the ECML will soon have the following some hours:

VTEC
VTEC
XC
TPE
First services to London

(on top of the Morpeth stopper - which may or may not become the Edinburgh service - plus North Berwick services once you get beyond Drem)

glbotu said:
No infrastructure required, because the current ECML infrastructure is already electrified. The reason they still have to run as DMUs (other than not having micro-fleets) is the short section of track used to reverse the service is not electrified

A ridiculously minor "saving" - I really don't know why BR didn't wire a hundred yards further there (especially considering the various bits of line that did get electrified - e.g. that headshunt at the eastern side at Berwick).

I know that there are always little bits beyond that could have been in scope (e.g. Gateshead to Metro Centre would have been nice), but this bit of track at Morpeth is pretty much a stone's throw (or maybe I've been watching too much Paralympics :lol:

)

yorksrob · 12 Sep 2016

tbtc said:
A ridiculously minor "saving" - I really don't know why BR didn't wire a hundred yards further there (especially considering the various bits of line that did get electrified - e.g. that headshunt at the eastern side at Berwick).

It's been twenty odd years since then. Surely somebody could have electrified a siding in that time !

glbotu · 12 Sep 2016

yorksrob said:
It's been twenty odd years since then. Surely somebody could have electrified a siding in that time !

Well, yes, but there hasn't been a need. I mean, Morpeth - Metrocentre is, I believe, run pretty much exclusively by two pacers all day. The rest of the services run from Heaton are either 142s or 156s. It takes about 25 mins from Newcastle - Morpeth, you could probably, in fact, run the whole service with one unit as a shuttle from Newcastle if you wanted to (assuming you're not talking about electrifying to the Metrocentre). That would be an insane micro-fleet, just for the sake of electrification.

You just don't gain anything by electrifying 100m of branch line.

edwin_m · 12 Sep 2016

glbotu said:
Well, yes, but there hasn't been a need. I mean, Morpeth - Metrocentre is, I believe, run pretty much exclusively by two pacers all day. The rest of the services run from Heaton are either 142s or 156s. It takes about 25 mins from Newcastle - Morpeth, you could probably, in fact, run the whole service with one unit as a shuttle from Newcastle if you wanted to (assuming you're not talking about electrifying to the Metrocentre). That would be an insane micro-fleet, just for the sake of electrification.

You just don't gain anything by electrifying 100m of branch line.

If and when the Tyne and Wear Metro fleet is replaced by a dual voltage NR-compatible fleet as Nexus propose, that would be the time to look at local electrification in the area. Once Pelaw to Sunderland converts to 25kV, MetroCentre and the turnback at Morpeth becomes an obvious extension.

bluenoxid · 12 Sep 2016

yorksrob said:
It's been twenty odd years since then. Surely somebody could have electrified a siding in that time !

Government policy has not been pro electrification either. Some people has also been campaigning for trains to extend to Bedlington, which would be easier to achieve with a DMU.

Altnabreac · 13 Sep 2016

TheKnightWho said:
Widdrington has a population of 2,750 and Pegswood one of 3,300 - definitely justifying a much improved service! The other two you're possibly right.

Pegswood could have decent potential as a park and ride site for Ashington passengers if it had a regular hourly service. Less convinced by Widdrington. A reopened Belford could also potentially do decent business with a large catchment area and much more accessible than Chathill. I believe it was post office usage that led to Chathill staying open but I'd be happy to see Chathill close now if replaced by Belford.

glbotu · 13 Sep 2016

edwin_m said:
If and when the Tyne and Wear Metro fleet is replaced by a dual voltage NR-compatible fleet as Nexus propose, that would be the time to look at local electrification in the area. Once Pelaw to Sunderland converts to 25kV, MetroCentre and the turnback at Morpeth becomes an obvious extension.

But then the usefulness of that disappears if you run a local service up the ECML anyway. Unless you're suggesting a MetroCar all the way from Berwick - Metrocentre.

edwin_m · 13 Sep 2016

glbotu said:
But then the usefulness of that disappears if you run a local service up the ECML anyway. Unless you're suggesting a MetroCar all the way from Berwick - Metrocentre.

I think there would be scope for a Morpeth shuttle as well as an Edinburgh stopping service. I doubt the Edinburgh would stop at the minor stations between Morpeth and Berwick (except Alnmouth) because this would make the journey too long and create capacity issues, and because it is primarily a Transport Scotland initiative. So there might be some extensions north of Morpeth to serve those stations.

glbotu · 13 Sep 2016

edwin_m said:
I think there would be scope for a Morpeth shuttle as well as an Edinburgh stopping service. I doubt the Edinburgh would stop at the minor stations between Morpeth and Berwick (except Alnmouth) because this would make the journey too long and create capacity issues, and because it is primarily a Transport Scotland initiative. So there might be some extensions north of Morpeth to serve those stations.

Right. I was looking at this from SENRUG's perspective. I was looking at this as an "hourly" Berwick stopper that happened to be extended to Edinburgh rather than an "hourly" Edinburgh service that happened to be extended south of Berwick.

DaveNewcastle · 13 Sep 2016

glbotu said:
So, I had a bit of time the other day, and mapped out the timetable in an excel spreadsheet. . . . . .

I gave up with your analysis half way though because of its disregard for anything other than timetabled passenger services.
I walked away but it was still on the screen when I came back and noticed this:-

glbotu said:
The bigger difficulty would possibly be a concern with catching up the Freight that's pathed before it every hour (it might even be sensible to path the stopper first in this case).

The "bigger difficulty" as you put it is the phenomenal need for other paths. Sometimes there are more than just one freight, ECS, departmental, charter service or diversions from the WCML, all to be squeezed into a very long (120 miles) route of double track rail, with some loops, not all of which are long enough to hold all of these non-passenger-timetabled services.

NotATrainspott · 13 Sep 2016

A third platform at Berwick could allow the stopper to be overtaken by the fast service(s) behind it. Berwick is a suitable place for a long layover time as the stopper would really just be providing Edinburgh-Berwick and Berwick-Newcastle stopping services joined together.

The Berwick stop would also be the ideal place to switch from ScotRail to Northern operation. However, ScotRail would have to provide the rolling stock, as Northern has no need for any EMUs up in the North East. Maybe we could have a small subtype of the Class 385 fitted with enough batteries to get from Newcastle to Metrocentre with dual ScotRail/Northern branding? Hitachi maintenance wouldn't be a problem with Heaton, Millerhill and Craigentinny along the route.

Anvil1984 · 14 Sep 2016

glbotu said:
Well, yes, but there hasn't been a need. I mean, Morpeth - Metrocentre is, I believe, run pretty much exclusively by two pacers all day. The rest of the services run from Heaton are either 142s or 156s. It takes about 25 mins from Newcastle - Morpeth, you could probably, in fact, run the whole service with one unit as a shuttle from Newcastle if you wanted to (assuming you're not talking about electrifying to the Metrocentre). That would be an insane micro-fleet, just for the sake of electrification.

You just don't gain anything by electrifying 100m of branch line.

Incorrect regarding allocation. its about half and half 142/156

The morning Chathill return service is a 156 (before becoming the 1022 Newcastle to Carlisle, 0915 Newcastle to Morpeth (off the 0900ish arrival from Dumfries) and return through to Metrocentre and back to Newcastle (forming 1122 Carlisle) and then another 156 (off the 1000ish arrival from Dumfries) forms the 1044 Newcastle - Metrocentre then goes on the Metrocentre- Morpeth-Metrocentre-Newcastle-Metrocentre-diagram. Through middle of the day it takes 3 units

glbotu · 14 Sep 2016

DaveNewcastle said:
I gave up with your analysis half way though because of its disregard for anything other than timetabled passenger services.
I walked away but it was still on the screen when I came back and noticed this:-
The "bigger difficulty" as you put it is the phenomenal need for other paths. Sometimes there are more than just one freight, ECS, departmental, charter service or diversions from the WCML, all to be squeezed into a very long (120 miles) route of double track rail, with some loops, not all of which are long enough to hold all of these non-passenger-timetabled services.

My understanding is that there is approximately 1 freight path per hour in each direction between Benton Junction and Scotland at off-peak times. South of Benton Junction, there are 2 paths which in the up direction are routed onto the Slow Line south of Heaton TMD. The reason I largely omitted the freight services from my analysis is that when intermixed with stoppers, they tend to go at similar average speeds, because the acceleration-deceleration of the stopping services is compensated for by the low speed of the freight train. The problem with stopping services on a (mostly) 2 track railway is the fast (125 mph expresses) catching up. It's a little simplistic, but then I never said I had gone into an in-depth analysis. I just plugged some timing points into a spreadsheet, largely to see if there were any "gaps" in which you could fit this service, which seems to be about right.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Anvil1984 said:
Incorrect regarding allocation. its about half and half 142/156

The morning Chathill return service is a 156 (before becoming the 1022 Newcastle to Carlisle, 0915 Newcastle to Morpeth (off the 0900ish arrival from Dumfries) and return through to Metrocentre and back to Newcastle (forming 1122 Carlisle) and then another 156 (off the 1000ish arrival from Dumfries) forms the 1044 Newcastle - Metrocentre then goes on the Metrocentre- Morpeth-Metrocentre-Newcastle-Metrocentre-diagram. Through middle of the day it takes 3 units

Ah Northern unit allocation................

Romilly · 10 Nov 2016

The BBC is reporting that the Scottish Government strongly supports the Reston and East Linton re-openings and is prepared to increase its contribution to 60%, rather than the usual 50%:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-37939808

East Linton and Reston re-openings delayed

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