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£2 Price Cap on fares in England - Now extended beyond October 2023

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chiltern trev

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Be interesting to read the small print and how this works outside cities.
In Cumbria we have some long bus routes - our local route is 55 miles (approx) end to end - spilt into 2 or 3 sections for registration purposes - route 685 Carlisle - Newcastle.
 
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PeterC

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Be interesting to read the small print and how this works outside cities.
In Cumbria we have some long bus routes - our local route is 55 miles (approx) end to end - spilt into 2 or 3 sections for registration purposes - route 685 Carlisle - Newcastle.
The people who came up with the policy probably weren't even aware of the issue.
 

chiltern trev

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The people who came up with the policy probably weren't even aware of the issue.
I would not call it an issue - more a not thought through policy - by someone in a big city, London, perhaps (I can see I might be open to adverse comments here about my assumption re big city but I look a local planning applications and the transport plan required for larger developments invariably gets the bus provision wrong for our route and the office address for the company doing the transport plan will be Leeds or Manchester.)
 

jupiter

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So presumably the maximum return fare is £4. Nice saving for me except the bus pass lands in February. Where's that "crying with laughter" emoji when you need it.

Here's hoping it boosts passenger numbers plus interest in and enthusiasm for bus services, as well as helping out people's pocket.

Personally I think it's a bold and brave move at entirely the wrong time of year.
 

Howardh

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Be interesting to read the small print and how this works outside cities.
In Cumbria we have some long bus routes - our local route is 55 miles (approx) end to end - spilt into 2 or 3 sections for registration purposes - route 685 Carlisle - Newcastle.
Yes, does this mean the 516 Windermere to Dungeon Ghyll will just be £2 (£4 return)? If so I can see companies splitting up journeys to get round this, ie. Windermere/Ambleside on one bus, it changes number and finishes the route.
 

JGurney

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Be interesting to read the small print and how this works outside cities.
In Cumbria we have some long bus routes - our local route is 55 miles (approx) end to end - spilt into 2 or 3 sections for registration purposes - route 685 Carlisle - Newcastle.
Yes, I don't suppose Leeds to Whitby will be £2 either. Perhaps a series of fare zones on longer routes, at £2 per zone entered. E.g. on Coastliner, Leeds to York being one, York to Malton another and east of Malton a third.
 

Andyh82

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Are Wales and Scotland doing anything similar?
They’ll probably announce a fare cap of £1.90 to start a week earlier

As others have said there needs to be an asterisk against the £2 or else on the likes of Coastliner you’d be getting 3 hours of travel to Scarborough for £2
 

PTR 444

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If I’m reading this correctly, is the £2 fare cap priced on each individual journey (and does one bus constitute one journey)? If so, I can see a lot of companies splitting routes to get around this issue.

Also how will this cap affect the pricing of the various day and period tickets which bus companies offer?
 

Andyh82

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If I’m reading this correctly, is the £2 fare cap priced on each individual journey (and does one bus constitute one journey)? If so, I can see a lot of companies splitting routes to get around this issue.

Also how will this cap affect the pricing of the various day and period tickets which bus companies offer?
Suppose it depends on if it is properly funded or not

If the government are going to give Yorkshire Coastliner £13 every time someone travels from Leeds to Scarborough for £2 then they won’t need to get round it.
 

PeterC

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Personally I think it's a bold and brave move at entirely the wrong time of year.
The right time of the year in my view. The last thing that you want is to swamp services to coastal resorts like Whitby and Scarborough in high season.
 

Howardh

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The right time of the year in my view. The last thing that you want is to swamp services to coastal resorts like Whitby and Scarborough in high season.
Not sure when the rail prices increase, is it March? So then we could have the double take of bus fares going back to "normal" (but higher??) and rail fare increases.

If the train increases were January, how many would transfer to bus even though their journey might take much longer? Example, Bolton > Manchester Picc peak return (now) £6.20 takes around 20 mins, Bolton > Manchester on the bus will be £4 return* and takes something like 1hr10. Over £500 annual saving??

*That's actually coming in this Monday, all GM bus journeys capped at £2 single with a £5 all-day ticket.
 

geoffk

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The people who came up with the policy probably weren't even aware of the issue.

Be interesting to read the small print and how this works outside cities.
In Cumbria we have some long bus routes - our local route is 55 miles (approx) end to end - spilt into 2 or 3 sections for registration purposes - route 685 Carlisle - Newcastle.

Same here in Devon. the bus destination display also reflects the split nature of the route. A lot of unknowns at present.
 

Ianigsy

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The right time of the year in my view. The last thing that you want is to swamp services to coastal resorts like Whitby and Scarborough in high season.
I would also imagine that senior pass usage is at its lowest between January and March when many older folk tend to stay at home.

In theory, these £2 fares should have the potential to create new custom.
 

Megafuss

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I do fear this will actually kill rural buses rather than save them without meaningful recompense.

I've used the 555 numerous times in the dead of winter and I've been the only fare payer. If that is replicated next year, they will need another 3 or 4 fare payers per trip to make budget without suitable reimbursement.
 

station_road

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RouteOne reports that

Participation in the fare cap scheme will be voluntary. Its funding will come from existing DfT budgets. The government has framed the offer as being one that both helps provide support in the cost-of-living crisis and encourages patronage return. It will also “subsidise operator costs,” DfT adds.

Background guidance notes state that DfT will work with the bus sector over coming months as it designs and implements the initiative “to encourage their participation.” One individual close to the commercial side of the industry has highlighted that sufficient reimbursement will be critical, including a consideration of any additional resources that may be required from the operator.

https://www.route-one.net/news/2-bus-fare-cap-in-england-for-january-to-march-2023/
 

Bletchleyite

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Optional - interesting. I bet that'll result in more incidents of driver abuse/assault on operators that decline to take part or exclude some of their services from it :(

I guess there's no legal basis to make it compulsory, though, without primary legislation comparable to that that requires acceptance of free passes.
 

Typhoon

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The right time of the year in my view. The last thing that you want is to swamp services to coastal resorts like Whitby and Scarborough in high season.
I would also imagine that senior pass usage is at its lowest between January and March when many older folk tend to stay at home.

In theory, these £2 fares should have the potential to create new custom.
Absolutely. Weather forecast predicts a sunny winter day, I'll be wrapping up warm, rucksack on my back, hi-vis on as it is still dark, £2 bus to the nearest bus station in time to catch the nine-thirty-whatever to somewhere interesting. Maybe the seaside, wind at my back. Be able to make a day of it. If the weather turns grim, its only two quid. Get me out of the house, get some exercise, I'm sure my GP will approve.
Whose idea is it? I'd vote for them.
 

Dai Corner

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Nothing announced in Wales as far as I'm aware. Is the English scheme additional spending or out of existing budgets? If the latter there will be no Barnett consequentials (extra money) for Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland.
Are Wales and Scotland doing anything similar?
 

HullRailMan

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Surely, if it’s a through journey that you can complete with out changing bus, and you can normally buy a through ticket for it, it should be £2. I’d be annoyed if I was told a journey from Hull to York on the X46, for example, was two journeys given it’s the same bus on the same route number throughout.
 

PeterC

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Surely, if it’s a through journey that you can complete with out changing bus, and you can normally buy a through ticket for it, it should be £2. I’d be annoyed if I was told a journey from Hull to York on the X46, for example, was two journeys given it’s the same bus on the same route number throughout.
Throw you all off half way change the number and let you back on. Job done
 

Alex365Dash

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Will be interesting to see what bus operators end up doing with through singles on split routes that require changing buses to get end-to-end. The Coastliner 700 comes to mind…

£2 single (essentially £4 return) from Portsmouth to Brighton would be quite cheap indeed!
 

Howardh

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Will be interesting to see what bus operators end up doing with through singles on split routes that require changing buses to get end-to-end. The Coastliner 700 comes to mind…

£2 single (essentially £4 return) from Portsmouth to Brighton would be quite cheap indeed!
Perhaps the solution is to keep the fares within counties. Although what about large counties, and cross border ones where one stop takes you into another county?!
 

WatcherZero

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If I’m reading this correctly, is the £2 fare cap priced on each individual journey (and does one bus constitute one journey)? If so, I can see a lot of companies splitting routes to get around this issue.

Also how will this cap affect the pricing of the various day and period tickets which bus companies offer?

Most bus companies have been lowering their season prices to be just under the daily fare cap so as to encourage you to still buy operator only tickets.

On the topic of some of the long services similar national discount/top up schemes in the past have often excluded open top/scheduled sightseeing buses.
 

TUC

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Most bus companies have been lowering their season prices to be just under the daily fare cap so as to encourage you to still buy operator only tickets.

On the topic of some of the long services similar national discount/top up schemes in the past have often excluded open top/scheduled sightseeing buses.
'Long services' are not the same as open top and sightseeing services. The latter are often within single towns and cities. The services under discussion are ones where people travel 20-50 miles to get between key towns. It is depressing to see how many DfT officials, and too many Londoners generally, are ignorant of that.
 

Hophead

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Will be interesting to see what bus operators end up doing with through singles on split routes that require changing buses to get end-to-end. The Coastliner 700 comes to mind…

£2 single (essentially £4 return) from Portsmouth to Brighton would be quite cheap indeed!
There is no service from Portsmouth to Brighton (and there hasn't been for quite a few years now). The 700 is effectively 3 separate routes - Portsmouth to Bognor, which overlaps with a service between Chichester and Littlehampton. This meets another service 700 which runs on to Brighton. Pretty sure each version of the 700 is operated by a different depot.
 

Alex365Dash

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There is no service from Portsmouth to Brighton (and there hasn't been for quite a few years now). The 700 is effectively 3 separate routes - Portsmouth to Bognor, which overlaps with a service between Chichester and Littlehampton. This meets another service 700 which runs on to Brighton.
That is indeed the case, but you can still buy a through single or return between the routes as if it’s still one, although you might need to change buses up to two times.
Pretty sure each version of the 700 is operated by a different depot.
Portsmouth - Bognor Regis is shared between Portsmouth and Chichester, Chichester - Littlehampton is ran by Chichester and Brighton - Littlehampton is ran by Worthing.
 

Kuyoyo

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There are others though which, although registered as separate services and having different service numbers, are conspicuously advertised as having through fares with no need to change vehicle. Arriva's X1/X2 Middlesbrough-Durham-Newcastle is a case in point http://www.travelnortheast.co.uk/downloads/bustimetables/arriva/X1-mbro-dur.pdf

Except that is now the X12 throughout - although the Durham to Newcastle section is now hourly due to the various driver-related shortages in the last two years.
 

RogerOut

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Haven’t read all the pages on this thread, but presumably if a single fair is capped at £2, presumably there will be a massive loss in revenue? Not to mention people won’t bother getting return tickets or daily tickets.

I’d imagine it could also save people buying weekly tickets?

Basically people could travel a long distance on a bus and back again for £4 quid a day?

For example you could get a bus from Tunbridge Wells to Brighton for £2 a single trip? A distance of over 30 miles.
 
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