£2 Price Cap on fares in England - Now extended beyond October 2023

[Adtrainsam]

It would seem Go South Coast will end the 2 pound fare scheme at the end of June

Is this confirmed? I note that none of the Go Ahead companies have put out publicity that they will remain apart of the scheme which will be a big PR blow for them - if they decide to opt out.

Have any operators committed to continuing in the scheme? The few I've looked at still mention end of June as the expiry of the £2 fare - it may be that they've yet to update their publicity, of course.

Many (but not all) First Group companies like Essex and Norfolk & Suffolk say they will be continuing until October 2023. It's very inconsistent so far.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Is this confirmed? I note that none of the Go Ahead companies have put out publicity that they will remain apart of the scheme which will be a big PR blow for them

Many (but not all) First Group companies like Essex and Norfolk & Suffolk say they will be continuing until October 2023. It's very inconsistent so far.

No bus company knows how much they will be offered to continue in the scheme yet. So it is unlikely any (many) will have made a formal decision either way. Of course, in some cases local marketing teams might have seized on the government announcement and ‘assumed’ their company would therefore continue beyond June….

 

[nw1]

It would seem Go South Coast will end the 2 pound fare scheme at the end of June

Are you sure about that- I'm sure I saw some advertising on a Bluestar or Unilink bus recently suggesting an extension.

(Sorry, seen your other post!)

Is it a good idea commercially in any case? I'd have thought extending it through the summer would encourage significantly more casual bus usage during the peak months of July and August, when there are perhaps less commuters and more day-trippers, and they'd gain more than they'd lose. If people are spending £4 on a return trip compared to a normal (say) £8 return, but 250% of normal passengers are using that route as a result of the cap, then the company are actually gaining more income from fares.

If the aim is to ensure that commuters aren't paying under the odds, I guess they could always do something where the £2 cap is only valid Mon-Fri off-peak (after 0930 and not between 1700-1800) and all day Sat and Sun. Or, retain it on a route-by-route basis, with a focus on routes with a high percentage of casual use (daytrippers/tourists) rather than city commuter routes.

The £2 cap for example could be a real deal-breaker when deciding whether to use the bus in tourist areas such as in the Bournemouth/Purbeck district - or just use the car.

Also, to advertise that it's continuing to October and then saying "er, actually, it's June" smacks of not knowing what you're doing. They shouldn't have promised October if they weren't almost certain it could continue until October.

If bus companies aren't taking it up, I guess Sunak won't be too pleased as he was doubtless counting on it as a way to try and minimise losses at the next election.

 

[noddingdonkey]

If day tickets can be offered commercially (which I take to mean without subsidy) at £1 or £1.60 per person surely a £2 single can?

What am I missing?

First West Yorkshire were offering a £2 single on their app before the WY mayor and then national initiatives came along. They also offer £1.40 evening singles.

 

[tjwpsv]

It would seem Go South Coast will end the 2 pound fare scheme at the end of June

But on his Twitter feed, Go-South Coast's Managing Director Andrew Wickham has been shown as speaking to Meridian ITV about 'an extension to the popular £2 fare cap'.

https://twitter.com/AndrewWickhamGo/status/1658823166309875714?s=20

Here's the report:

 

[Eyersey468]

If day tickets can be offered commercially (which I take to mean without subsidy) at £1 or £1.60 per person surely a £2 single can?

What am I missing?

We can't offer a £2 fare from Hull to York or Bridlington etc on a commercial basis, it simply isn't viable for us, so it has to be subsidised from somewhere

 

[NorthernSpirit]

This English initiative is being paid for by Central Government, not through council tax.

How does this work if its being done by Metro Mayors in Combined Authority areas? Same way or funded slighly differently?

Its been a while but I did some walking in Calderdale, they still seem to be advertising bus walks. If there is a group, get the bus as you don't to end up where you started. It is a question of getting people through the door. By and large fresh air doesn't pay a fare!

One thing for certain but many have since faded/become damaged, a select number of shelters in Calderdale did have the £2 Mayor's Fare poster stuck inside.

Maybe if the West Yorkshire Metro Mayor had twigged, she could have also insisted on advertising the £2 flat fare in the timetables as well as on posters placed in the toilets at Ferrybridge, Wetherby, Leeds Skelton Lake and Hartshead Moor motorway services and I'd even go far as promoting the "offer" on a large hording at the entrances of the park and ride sites in Leeds. As someone who is passing through West Yorkshire may stop for a tinkle, see the poster and could decide to have a day out in West Yorkshire.

 

[javelin]

How does this work if its being done by Metro Mayors in Combined Authority areas? Same way or funded slighly differently?

Those are funded through the BSIP awards, which is why only a handful of Combined Authorities implemented them before the national scheme.

 

[RT4038]

Those are funded through the BSIP awards, which is why only a handful of Combined Authorities implemented them before the national scheme.

The BSIP money having come from Central Government of course.

Maybe if the West Yorkshire Metro Mayor had twigged, she could have also insisted on advertising the £2 flat fare in the timetables as well as on posters placed in the toilets at Ferrybridge, Wetherby, Leeds Skelton Lake and Hartshead Moor motorway services and I'd even go far as promoting the "offer" on a large hording at the entrances of the park and ride sites in Leeds. As someone who is passing through West Yorkshire may stop for a tinkle, see the poster and could decide to have a day out in West Yorkshire.

And the West Yorkshire Metro Mayor goes down to this level of detail.... yeah right!

 

[E-Rail]

But on his Twitter feed, Go-South Coast's Managing Director Andrew Wickham has been shown as speaking to Meridian ITV about 'an extension to the popular £2 fare cap'.

https://twitter.com/AndrewWickhamGo/status/1658823166309875714?s=20

Here's the report:

No official announcement yet but all references to the October extension have now been deleted from at least the morebus website and socials.

Taking the Bournemouth to Swanage route 50 alone, continuing in the scheme through summer would see huge losses of revenue. The route runs full and standing throughout the summer at full price which is basically £10 return. There is no way the fare cap grant will be coming to close to reimbursing that lost revenue this year.

Across the Bournemouth and Poole area, prior to the cap, the most popular tickets were the Zone A Dayrider at £4.30 and child version at £3.20. There is more to be lost than gained by staying in the scheme. It would definitely have been pointless from November at the £2.50 level. Probably better to protect the summer revenue (which pays a lot of the annual bills) and get out now. But we'll see.

 

[RT4038]

I believe that there is, inevitably, unhappiness amongst bus operators that the reimbursement rate for the scheme is not high enough, and negotiations are taking place with DfT. Hence why the bus companies are not shouting about the extension as yet.

 

[Kite159]

Morebus are probably in the same boat as the Coastliner buses, maybe even the Essex Airlink services, which normally are quite expensive without the £2 fare scheme.

 

[Andyh82]

In reality now the scheme has become longer term there should probably be a long distance fare as well, even if it’s only £3

I recently had a ride on the X47 from York to Hull, I was on the bus over 2 hours all for £2.I don’t know what it would usually cost, but I bet it’s closer to £10 than £5

 

[Deerfold]

In reality now the scheme has become longer term there should probably be a long distance fare as well, even if it’s only £3

I recently had a ride on the X47 from York to Hull, I was on the bus over 2 hours all for £2.I don’t know what it would usually cost, but I bet it’s closer to £10 than £5

If the fare tables on bustimes.org are correct, a single would be £8.50

 

[Eyersey468]

If the fare tables on bustimes.org are correct, a single would be £8.50

Yeah that sounds about right

 

[E-Rail]

In reality now the scheme has become longer term there should probably be a long distance fare as well, even if it’s only £3

I recently had a ride on the X47 from York to Hull, I was on the bus over 2 hours all for £2.I don’t know what it would usually cost, but I bet it’s closer to £10 than £5

Not if the longer routes are primarily leisure services. The cap is supposed to be a help with the cost of living and reducing the cost of commuting and necessary journeys, not subsidising longer distance day trips that wouldn't have been taken anyway.

 

[AM9]

Not if the longer routes are primarily leisure services. The cap is supposed to be a help with the cost of living and reducing the cost of commuting and necessary journeys, not subsidising longer distance day trips that wouldn't have been taken anyway.

However, if the cap encourages more of those leisure journeys, it can only help the bus operators. There's no profit in empty seats.

 

[E-Rail]

However, if the cap encourages more of those leisure journeys, it can only help the bus operators. There's no profit in empty seats.

But encouraging bus ridership wasn't the aim of the scheme. It was to ease the cost of travel for those already reliant on bus travel for day to day travel.

 

[Cesarcollie]

But encouraging bus ridership wasn't the aim of the scheme. It was to ease the cost of travel for those already reliant on bus travel for day to day travel.

Everyone wins if empty seats are filled. The problem occurs - as is is likely to over the summer with leisure services, and going into September with schools and workers return - when the extra journeys made mean there is insufficient capacity. The scheme doesn’t provide funding for any duplication (which at £2 fares would not be viable), even if operators were lucky enough to have the buses and drivers to provide it.

 

[AM9]

Everyone wins if empty seats are filled. The problem occurs - as is is likely to over the summer with leisure services, and going into September with schools and workers return - when the extra journeys made mean there is insufficient capacity. The scheme doesn’t provide funding for any duplication (which at £2 fares would not be viable), even if operators were lucky enough to have the buses and drivers to provide it.

That's a similar argument used against the universal validity of ENCTS passes, which although not perfect, has enabled many services that would otherwise have withered away to survive.
Every journey taken by public transport that otherwise would have added to the volume of private car use is an overall benefit to the local and global environment. If the £2 scheme was meant to purely benefit only those who absolutely needed to save money, it would have been via an income related concession

 

[RT4038]

But encouraging bus ridership wasn't the aim of the scheme. It was to ease the cost of travel for those already reliant on bus travel for day to day travel.

Of course encouraging bus ridership was an aim of the scheme. Bus ridership has taken a nose dive since Covid, partly because of Government messages that Public Transport was unsafe. Easing the cost of travel for those most likely to need it (who have a greater propensity to travel by bus) was another.

 

[Deerfold]

That's a similar argument used against the universal validity of ENCTS passes, which although not perfect, has enabled many services that would otherwise have withered away to survive.

That varies by local authority depending on the level of reimbursement.

Transdev started a two hourly express service between Harrogate and York some years back. It was regularly standing room only, but was withdrawn because the level of reimbursement did not meet the costs (EDIT : shortly after increasing the frequency to hourly, but following a cut in the ENTCS reimbursement formula).

Not if the longer routes are primarily leisure services. The cap is supposed to be a help with the cost of living and reducing the cost of commuting and necessary journeys, not subsidising longer distance day trips that wouldn't have been taken anyway.

If that's what the cap is for, then surely you'd welcome a higher fare for those journeys?

 

[Delenn]

Transdev started a two hourly express service between Harrogate and York some years back. It was regularly standing room only, but was withdrawn because the level of reimbursement did not meet the costs.

What number was that please? I've not been able to find anything about it online.

 

[Deerfold]

It was the X54.

York to Harrogate bus scrapped after cuts in funding for concessionary fares

A BUS company is scrapping its direct service from York to Harrogate following cuts in funding for concessionary fares.

www.yorkpress.co.uk

He said the majority of passengers carried on the X54 used concessionary passes. “Now, after the cut in funds, the service is simply not viable,” he said.

“The money we get is based on a complicated formula but it means that instead of the full adult single fare of £5.50 from Harrogate to York we only get £1.48 through the scheme. Even if the bus was full it wouldn’t even cover its costs.

 

[Cesarcollie]

That's a similar argument used against the universal validity of ENCTS passes, which although not perfect, has enabled many services that would otherwise have withered away to survive.
Every journey taken by public transport that otherwise would have added to the volume of private car use is an overall benefit to the local and global environment. If the £2 scheme was meant to purely benefit only those who absolutely needed to save money, it would have been via an income related concession

I fully agree that there are of course societal and environmental benefits from encouraging modal shift to bus. My point was however in relation the the economics and capacity implications of the ongoing scheme, which will be the deciding factor in whether individual operators can afford to participat.

 

[Delenn]

It was the X54.

Cheers. No idea why I didn't find that!

 

[Mikey C]

As the £2 fare came out of nowhere politically, nobody knows exactly why it was brought in!

 

[AM9]

As the £2 fare came out of nowhere politically, nobody knows exactly why it was brought in!

Precisely, -if one was to be charitable to the Conservatives, it could be argued that the intention was to encourage travel for all to be by bus wherever practicable. It could certainly make a difference to areas where many visitors drive and park. If bus operators really bought into the additional subsidy, and publicised the offer, they might benefit from 'park and ride' type of operations, and also as a 'station to destination' last link.
However the cynic in me doubts that this government has much to do with anything other than a scatter gun approach to bribing a sector of the electorate that hasn't been courted yet.

 

[Dai Corner]

As the £2 fare came out of nowhere politically, nobody knows exactly why it was brought in!

From the original announcement last September.

£2 bus fare cap across England to save passengers money

Government to provide up to £60 million from January to March next year, to help bus operators to cap single adult fares at £2 per journey.

www.gov.uk

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said:

Buses are by far and away the most used form of public transport, so ensuring that almost all bus journeys are no more than £2 will assist passengers over the winter months and provide direct help to thousands of households across the country.
This £60 million boost will mean everyone can affordably get to work, education, the shops and doctor’s appointments.
We know people will be feeling the pressure of rising costs this winter, and so we have been working hard this summer to provide practical concrete help that will lower daily expenditure.

 

[Andyh82]

Those are funded through the BSIP awards, which is why only a handful of Combined Authorities implemented them before the national scheme.

Does this mean that West Yorkshire, Greater Manchester etc are now wasting their BSIP money on a scheme that is unnecessary?

They could have axed their schemes at the start of the year and then implemented the national scheme instead