Rhydgaled said:
I've heard enough complaints about disruption, so I'm not going to suggest another WCML upgrade. However, I think somebody posted on a rail fourm that there's alot of space on the Chiltern line where the number of tracks has been reduced in the past. Perhaps therefore the Chiltern line could be re-quadrupled. Would that have much effect on the current running lines? Once the extra tracks are in place, could you divert the current service onto those, electrify the line and perhaps upgrade linespeeds slightly more to make the Moor Street to Marylebone almost as fast as New Street to Euston? Less disruption overall than trying to upgrade the WCML again surely, and less disruption at Euston than the HS2 proposals anyway.
Not that much of the Chiltern was ever 4 tracked. Around Birmingham there were bits of 4 tracking, but further south loops were more common. From memory:
-South/West Ruislip: still has loops but ideally you'd want 4 tracks beween the two, which is not currently the case.
-Denham: The loop cannot be reinstated without moving the new platform, which would require work to the trackbed to support the weight (the old platform was removed due to subsidence).
-Gerrards Cross: The up platform would need to be put back into its original position.
-Beaconsfield: Could be reinstated.
-High Wycombe: Could also be put back, but the sharp curves there mean it would have minimal time benefit.
-Princes Risborough: The up loop has already been put back; if the former down platform was restored then a down loop could also be added.
-Bicester North: The up platform has recently been moved to where the loops were, so I doubt Chiltern would want it torn up now!
-Leamington Spa: The loop is still there but the linespeed isn't that great.
You probably could add more services onto the Chiltern, but it would need some clever timetabling in order to work. The lack of 4 tracks for miles on end would also increase the risk of one incident throwing the entire service into chaos. The advantage of something like HS2 is that if, say, the WCML is shut due to an incident then HS2 can keep working.
The trains on the Chiltern are generally capable of only 100mph, so these would have to be replaced, as mixing slow and fast trains is just asking for trouble. The various bottlenecks on the route also mean you'd need to implement tilting trains, another major engineering project. The whole thing starts to look very much like the WCML upgrade package!
Rhydgaled said:
If a new line really is the only option, then 250mph is too fast for a London - Birmingham link. All that is needed is to beat the car, which I think Pendos and Chiltern mainline silver services probablly already do. Therefore, I'd replace HS2 with a 125-155mph London - Birmingham line. Alternatively, I'd have a 202mph/325kph line and turn their Birmingham station into an intermediate stop on the Manchester service (which has air travel to compete with, hence the higher linespeed) by building a tunnel at the end furthest from London.
The high speed is what provides capacity. If you slow down the trains, then you will have room for fewer number of trains per hour, hence slower trains = reduced number of trains. Since it's going to be built now, we might as well do a proper job of it, rather than save a few pennies now to put off spending a good number of pounds in the future.
My understanding is that eventually, Birmingham will be an intermediate stop along the line. It is very expensive to build the whole route in one go, so once London-Birmingham is set up, we can get to work on Birmingham - Manchester/Leeds and beyond. This is also relevant to the speed point: if longer journeys on HS2 are faster, this makes them more competitive with the airlines. If the Birmingham station is right in the centre (or at least has good connections inside Birmingham) then this makes getting to/from the service faster.
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phil8715 said:
If Virgin ran a non stop train from Euston to Birmingham New Street how long would it take at the present time?
National Rail shows the fastest EUS-BHM runs to take 1h22 (88 minutes).