“New research shows passengers wasting money by booking late”

[bakerstreet]

An LNER led PR piece here.

I’ve not posted it in the LNER section because this might be one for wider debate about people seemingly not wishing to book too far in advance for their train travel.

Me too.

One of the benefits of rail travel over – say - air travel, and one which makes it more closely aligned to travelling by car, is that traditionally advance booking has never been vital on the trains in order to pay a reasonable fare.

It seems like the industry is determined to make one of railway’s biggest benefits (flexibility) a thing of the past, to be replaced by – in LNER words previously – “modern flexibility“. Ugh.

LNER claim in the piece below that passengers can “save a fortune“ by booking in advance.

Yes, they can, especially when you plan to remove any other option bar the Anytime fare.

And LNER of course further benefit by advanced fares being generally non refundable – unlike the hotel or accommodation bookings people are making where a majority of those are probably available for free cancellation up till 24 or 48 hours prior to making the trip.

Certainly most of my accommodation bookings are.

This line is the winner for me.

“We want LNER customers to get the best deal possible,

Full article:

Rail passengers could save a fortune by booking their train tickets at the same time as the rest of their travel plans, as research carried out by YouGov on behalf of LNERshows many leave it late.

The data shows that day trips are expected to be the most popular type of leisure trip this year, with 36 per cent of those questioned saying they would be enjoying a day out. This is followed by short breaks (25 per cent) and then overnight stays (18 per cent).

The study revealed that while overnight stays are largely decided on and hotels booked a month before, those travelling by train don’t book their tickets until the week before their trip.

For longer breaks that are planned two to three months in advance, one in three people still don’t book their train tickets until the week before they go.

LNER, which serves more than fifty destinations along its almost one-thousand-mile East Coast route between the Scottish Highlands and London, is encouraging customers to book ahead for best value fares. Tickets are already on sale for many journeys between now and well into September.

Customers who book direct on the LNER website or app can save up to 45 per cent on Advance fares. LNER’s fixed-price Family Tickets can see savings of up to 65 per cent for travel between seventeen destinations for up to two adults and four children. For those looking for inspiration, LNER’s Deal Finder app highlights great value fares and destinations to discover.

David Flesher, LNER’s Commercial Director, said: “This research shows that our customers are planning trips weeks and months in advance, but missing out on best value fares by not actually booking their tickets at the same time.


“We want LNER customers to get the best deal possible, so we’d encourage people to book early. Right now, tickets are on sale through the summer holidays for many dates well into September 2024. If you’re looking to travel between now and then, we encourage you to plan ahead and make the most of our fantastic destinations.”

New research shows passengers wasting money by booking late | RailBusinessDaily

Rail passengers could save a fortune by booking their train tickets at the same time as the rest of their travel plans, as research carried out by YouGov Rail passengers could save a fortune by booking their train tickets at the same time as the rest of their travel plans, as research carried...

news.railbusinessdaily.com

 

[185]

If Crosscountry are being dragged infront of the Advertising Standards Authority for failing to make the tea when promised, this lot, the worst offender in the UK for needlessly messing with their tickets like some bad GCSE project should certainly be facing rebuke by the one authority expected to monitor their marketing claims. The above post's quote, I consider to be a marketing piece.

I don't quite buy the claim that everything done has been at the behest of the DfT - I believe much of it was suggested by people at LNER for reasons / motives unknown.

 

[kkong]

Customers who book direct on the LNER website or app can save up to 45 per cent on Advance fares.

This implies that Advance fares can be bought on LNER's website or app for up to 45% less than the same Advance fares can be bought from other outlets.

PR spin is one thing, but misleading nonsense such as this is quite another.

The website link provided has an asterisk which explains that the 45% is in fact comparing Advance and walk-up fares.

It would have been honest to have said "Customers who book direct on the LNER website or app can save up to 45 per cent with Advance fares".

Sadly, it is usually beyond the capability of many PR wallahs to put their case across without obfuscating and bending the truth.

 

[Haywain]

This implies that Advance fares can be bought on LNER's website or app for up to 45% less than the same Advance fares can be bought from other outlets.

And is probably true, because the LNER web and app channels have tickets for LNER journeys released earlier than other retailers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What is it about LNER and disliking people who don't book loads in advance? It's not as if they use the data from that to do anything useful like varying train lengths based on how busy it's getting or adding additional trains (which the likes of SNCF do do to an extent).

Do they just like the interest-free loans?

I get demand based pricing, but not this sort of thing. Even low-cost airlines and Premier Inns don't vary that much based on how far in advance you've booked, it's much more clever than that based on expected demand on specific dates.

 

[kkong]

And is probably true, because the LNER web and app channels have tickets for LNER journeys released earlier than other retailers.

But if you click through to the LNER page linked in the article, that is not what it says:

* Saving average based on all Standard Advance tickets bought on the LNER website and App at least four weeks before you travel vs buying any Standard ticket on the day you travel.

So why not just be clear in the PR mailshot that's been sent to Rail Business Daily (and no doubt countless others)?

 

[Somewhere]

All they'll do is encourage people to use the car

 

[Essan]

People would book earlier if they knew when trains were going to run!

Personally I'd rather pay a bit more and know that the services I book should be running, than risk them being cancelled due to strikes.

 

[HappyCampers]

not sure if its related to this, I have noticed that some open day returns have got more and more expensive and the booking algorithms keep pushing me to set train times

eg a day return Sheffield to Manchester is now £39.00. A few days notice and I can get train specific tickets for half that or less - but it makes things much less flexible - if a meeting runs over I risk missing my train, if a train turns up short form and too crowded to get on (looking at you TPX!) I am stuffed

For comparison and a similar distance journey, Its only £17.10 for open day return Sheffield to Leeds, and fixed train times don't make much difference, but don't get me started on that disparity

 

[akm]

LNER, which serves more than fifty destinations along its almost one-thousand-mile East Coast route between the Scottish Highlands and London

I'm used to PR pieces playing fast and loose, but I have no idea what this is even supposed to mean!

 

[kkong]

I'm used to PR pieces playing fast and loose, but I have no idea what this is even supposed to mean!

Simple - if you're a PR person!

You add up:

• Kings Cross to York
• York to Leeds
• York to Edinburgh
• Edinburgh to Inverness
• Edinburgh to Aberdeen
• etc.

And you reach your "almost 1,000 miles".

It sounds better than just measuring from Kings Cross to Inverness because that gives a smaller number.

I'm surprised the PR piece didn't specify the length in km for an even bigger number.

Or how many times longer the route is compared to a football pitch...

 

[Halwynd]

Day trips? Well.. I decide based on how I feel the night before or on the day. I also want a reasonable idea about what the weather is going to be like before I go out - who wants a day trip in the pouring rain? For those reasons I never book in advance.

If the rail fare isn't reasonable I drive instead - nothing the railway ever does to encourage, or force me to buy a restricted, inflexible ticket will work, I will just use the car.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't quite buy the claim that everything done has been at the behest of the DfT - I believe much of it was suggested by people at LNER for reasons / motives unknown.

They'll have been egged on by them for sure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They'll have been egged on by them for sure.

DfT: You need to make more money
LNER: This is how we propose to achieve that

...is probably how it went.

 

[yorksrob]

DfT: You need to make more money
LNER: This is how we propose to achieve that

...is probably how it went.

Indeed. No interest in passengers from either of them.

 

[Watershed]

not sure if its related to this, I have noticed that some open day returns have got more and more expensive

Around 5-10 years ago, TPE indirectly increased the price of a lot of the flexible, walk-up fares they set. Their Off-Peak tickets previously had no time restrictions, meaning they could be used at any time - but TPE introduced time restrictions (often quite onerous, such as "not before 09:30") which meant that a lot of people were suddenly forced to start buying Anytime tickets at a much higher price.

But in recent years, the trend has been in the opposite direction if anything, with increases generally being limited to inflation (or even below-inflation last year) and cheaper tickets being introduced that are only valid on slower services, such as "Northern only".

and the booking algorithms keep pushing me to set train times

This is certainly a more modern thing. Advance tickets have become increasingly prevalent for journeys in the north, even for short local hops. Northern are particularly keen on them and offer some veritable bargains, but again their trains are often slower.

eg a day return Sheffield to Manchester is now £39.00

Unfortunately, there aren't any Day Returns that are valid on all operators between Sheffield and Manchester. TPE abolished those some years back in an effort to increase revenue. So the £39.00 fare is an "Any Permitted" Anytime Short Distance Return (hardly a short distance between Sheffield and Manchester!), whose return portion is valid for a month.

Northern offer a "Northern only" Off-Peak Day Return, but it's only about a pound cheaper than the "Northern only" Off-Peak Return, whose return portion is valid for a month.

A few days notice and I can get train specific tickets for half that or less - but it makes things much less flexible - if a meeting runs over I risk missing my train, if a train turns up short form and too crowded to get on (looking at you TPX!) I am stuffed

Indeed. Not sure if you are aware, though, that Advance tickets can be changed to a different train (or indeed 'upgraded' to an Off-Peak/Anytime ticket) provided you make the change before your booked train is due to depart.

For comparison and a similar distance journey, Its only £17.10 for open day return Sheffield to Leeds, and fixed train times don't make much difference, but don't get me started on that disparity

This journey is priced by Northern (for the "not via Doncaster" fare), who have historically not increased their fares anywhere near as much as TPE. The distance to Leeds is also slightly shorter, although of course rail fares aren't strictly calculated based on mielage.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

What is it about LNER and disliking people who don't book loads in advance?

Because advance fares are opaque and unregulated. They can hoof the prices up by releasing tiny quotas for the lowest prices, while still claiming "fares from £7.50" or whatever.

 

[setdown]

Time to put the optimistic hat on. Maybe LNER have lately been receiving/seeing a lot of feedback along the lines of "you're very expensive now", and this PR piece is some kind of way of countering that narrative.

 

[ChrisC]

Day trips? Well.. I decide based on how I feel the night before or on the day. I also want a reasonable idea about what the weather is going to be like before I go out - who wants a day trip in the pouring rain? For those reasons I never book in advance.

If the rail fare isn't reasonable I drive instead - nothing the railway ever does to encourage, or force me to buy a restricted, inflexible ticket will work, I will just use the car.

I’m also getting a bit like that when planning short holidays of just a few days, especially during the winter months. I have them penciled in in my diary, book my hotel at a flexible cancellable rate, then if a few days before it’s looking like the weather is going to be bad, I cancel and don’t go. I also don’t like travelling using inflexible advance tickets and so that suits me very well. The last 2 years of rail strikes have resulted in me taking this approach even for longer holidays during the summer. I don’t book anything definite until within 14 days of going just in case a rail strike is called. If I want to book further ahead, I plan a holiday using my car instead. It costs more booking everything at flexible rates but I’d rather do that.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Wonder how much research has been done on just how much money is wasted on booking Advance tickets that, aren't then ever used, and can't be amended / refunded?

 

[Halwynd]

I’m also getting a bit like that when planning short holidays of just a few days, especially during the winter months. I have them penciled in in my diary, book my hotel at a flexible cancellable rate, then if a few days before it’s looking like the weather is going to be bad, I cancel and don’t go. I also don’t like travelling using inflexible advance tickets and so that suits me very well. The last 2 years of rail strikes have resulted in me taking this approach even for longer holidays during the summer. I don’t book anything definite until within 14 days of going just in case a rail strike is called. If I want to book further ahead, I plan a holiday using my car instead. It costs more booking everything at flexible rates but I’d rather do that.

Yes, I share your views. I've learn't my lesson losing money on Advances and stopped buying them around 2014. I pay more for the flexibility but when things fall down I don't have the hassle we read so much about on this forum. But I now travel less by rail and more by car, particularly as reliability and service quality has fallen in recent years, and of course the uncertainty because of strikes.

 

[greyman42]

LNER claim in the piece below that passengers can “save a fortune“ by booking in advance.

If you are "saving a fortune" then the fare in question must cost a fortune in the first place. Surely not the best advert for LNER?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

On further reflection, this does seem almost like a rehash of the one time Trainline advert strapline which claimed that its customers can save (an average of 43%?) when booking in advance.

 

[Halwynd]

If you are "saving a fortune" then the fare in question must cost a fortune in the first place. Surely not the best advert for LNER?

Haha - nice one!

 

[yorksrob]

This is the problem with most things in this country, be it utilities, trains, bank accounts. Instead of providing decent value for money in the first place everyone's expected to jump through hoops.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

This is the problem with most things in this country, be it utilities, trains, bank accounts. Instead of providing decent value for money in the first place everyone's expected to jump through hoops.

...utilities, trains, bank accounts, government. The way that local authorities have to spend endless time bidding for the latest pot of money central Government has dreamed up, rather than actually being funded to do their job, is a farce.

 

[Haywain]

...utilities, trains, bank accounts, government. The way that local authorities have to spend endless time bidding for the latest pot of money central Government has dreamed up, rather than actually being funded to do their job, is a farce.

... but, hey, tax cuts are good, right?

 

[yorksrob]

...utilities, trains, bank accounts, government. The way that local authorities have to spend endless time bidding for the latest pot of money central Government has dreamed up, rather than actually being funded to do their job, is a farce.

Oh, you've hit the nail on the head there !

 

[AlterEgo]

This was posted on Twitter today by David Horne. Obviously a LNER puff piece which they’d paid handsomely for, although the strategy of saying your customers are “wasting money” with you is frankly bizarre.

The comms around this was incompetent and off base as per usual, and thankfully a dozen or so Twitter users were able to destroy this article in such a way the tweet was then deleted. Useless and spineless leadership full of its own bluster.

 

[Hadders]

Very often people don't want to purchase in advance in case their plans change. Advance tickets being non-refundable means there could be a considerable loss to passengers who purchase in advance but then have to cancel.