“Scotlands best ever railway”

[sleeperagent]

RTT doesn’t always tell the whole story- some trains, e.g. Edinburgh to Inverurie ones can be cancelled at places like Dundee and restarted from Aberdeen- this can appear on Journeycheck as “an additional service is planned to operate” there’s also an evening Edinburgh to Inverness that, in the last timetable, often coupled to a Glasgow at Perth to save a path, especially if the LNER was late. This shows on RTT as a cancellation but Journeycheck had the explanation. Whether that’s even possible now with HSTs appearing to Inverness is another question

Aha! I had no idea about the Glasgow/Edinburgh/Perth/Inverness hookup trick - thanks!

 

[Starmill]

Agreed. The “it’s better than Northern” comeback that is routinely dished out on here needs swiftly put in the bin. Absolutely irrelevant.

Why? Are you claiming that passengers in Scotland deserve better than passengers in Northern England? I'm unclear why you are persistent on this point anyways given you specifically state that you don't use the train service to commute (in common with the majority of people).

I often use the railways in the Central Belt and they come across as some of the best nationally. It is bizarre that they are also far more complained about than the objectively worse services elsewhere. The skip-stopping row demonstrated it perfectly. The problem elsewhere is there's never enough skip-stopping or other mitigation for delays. But the problem in Scotland was that there was mitigation.

The level of disruption is not good but it's relatively minor and relatively short-term. Significant improvements have already been realised with more on the way. Elsewhere the disruption is worse, semi-permenement without resolution in the offing, and some contracted improvements have been abandoned entirely.

 

[Stopper]

Why? Are you claiming that passengers in Scotland deserve better than passengers in Northern England? I'm unclear why you are persistent on this point anyways given you specifically state that you don't use the train service to commute (in common with the majority of people).

I often use the railways in the Central Belt and they come across as some of the best nationally. It is bizarre that they are also far more complained about than the objectively worse services elsewhere. The skip-stopping row demonstrated it perfectly. The problem elsewhere is there's never enough skip-stopping or other mitigation for delays. But the problem in Scotland was that there was mitigation.

I have commuted for 10+ years and only stopped last friday before the timetable change due to it being now quicker to use the car.

Northern’s service levels have absolutely no relevance to ScotRail’s. Just because somewhere else is worse off, doesn’t mean the main issue gets a pass. Just like the UK still has problems, but it’s not a war-torn country like Syria so the UK is 100% perfect, right? Quite frankly a bizarre point and the fact you’ve implied I made out Scotland deserves a better service than England is even more ridiculous.

 

[Starmill]

Just because somewhere is worse off, doesn’t mean the main issue gets a pass.

Indeed. It seems to me that as a result of underinformed complaining and political meddling, and admittedly a very poor press office from ScotRail, more cancellations have resulted because of the ridiculous "semi-ban" on skipping stops. That is what people wanted but they don't like it even then.

 

[snookertam]

I have commuted for 10+ years and only stopped last friday before the timetable change due to it being now quicker to use the car.

Really? You should have mentioned it before...

 

[Stopper]

Indeed. It seems to me that as a result of underinformed complaining and political meddling, and admittedly a very poor press office from ScotRail, more cancellations have resulted because of the ridiculous "semi-ban" on skipping stops. That is what people wanted but they don't like it even then.

Most commuters don’t have the slightest idea how the rail network works, and probably don’t want to know. To them it just looks like trains are skipping stations at the slightest delay. It’s a tough one to decide and many arguments can be made either way.

EDIT - I suspect the high level of ScotRail’s skip stopping was what gathered it some publicity. The idea of skip-stopping is understandable and should be okay if kept to a minimum.

Really? You should have mentioned it before...

Sadly the car is quicker these days. Shame.

 

[al78]

Northern’s service levels have absolutely no relevance to ScotRail’s. Just because somewhere else is worse off, doesn’t mean the main issue gets a pass.

Very true, this is a popular fallacy.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as

 

[dtaylor84]

Why? Are you claiming that passengers in Scotland deserve better than passengers in Northern England?

Yes. *Everyone*, including passengers in Northern England, deserve far better than passengers in Northern England are currently getting. Hence why it's completely fallacious to suggest that anything better than what Northern England is currently getting is somehow "good enough".

 

[Starmill]

Yes. *Everyone*, including passengers in Northern England, deserve far better than passengers in Northern England are currently getting. Hence why it's completely fallacious to suggest that anything better than what Northern England is currently getting is somehow "good enough".

I didn't say it was good enough. What I said was that they comments made are out of proportion with the nature of the disruption. Similar comments made about other services, which are experiencing greater disruption, might be more justified, but are broadly absent.

 

[Starmill]

Sadly the car is quicker these days. Shame.

I travel by rail where driving would be quicker on the majority of my train journeys...

 

[Stopper]

Skip stopping is creeping back in. Not having a go but what was the details of this supposed skip-stopping ban?

 

[alangla]

I noticed that as well. Maybe with the change in political management (Matheson instead of Yousaf) it’s been tacitly reintroduced.

 

[HankyuDentetsu]

Things just going from bad to worse across the country - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-46590061

I've stopped taking the train to work. I never thought I'd have to do this, having essentially evangelised using public transport over personal for over a decade at this point. But, mid last week, I gave up - I'm just lucky enough to have access to a car and work in an office that has sufficient parking - this is not the same for many.

It feels really bad, giving up, but it had to be done. I won't pay ScotRail a penny more until they can provide me with a service that will actually show up when advertised, and get me there as they say it will.

 

[Stopper]

Things just going from bad to worse across the country - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-46590061

I've stopped taking the train to work. I never thought I'd have to do this, having essentially evangelised using public transport over personal for over a decade at this point. But, mid last week, I gave up - I'm just lucky enough to have access to a car and work in an office that has sufficient parking - this is not the same for many.

It feels really bad, giving up, but it had to be done. I won't pay ScotRail a penny more until they can provide me with a service that will actually show up when advertised, and get me there as they say it will.

I’m in the same boat mate. Commuted for over a decade on the railway and have always been a huge fan of it. However, ScotRail’s service has been shambolic for the most part but I was willing to put up with it when we were promised improvements. The new timetable was the final nail in the coffin for me, I had to go to the car. Pathetic service levels, and they wonder why they’re considered a joke in this country?

 

[snookertam]

Why? Are you claiming that passengers in Scotland deserve better than passengers in Northern England? I'm unclear why you are persistent on this point anyways given you specifically state that you don't use the train service to commute (in common with the majority of people).

I often use the railways in the Central Belt and they come across as some of the best nationally. It is bizarre that they are also far more complained about than the objectively worse services elsewhere. The skip-stopping row demonstrated it perfectly. The problem elsewhere is there's never enough skip-stopping or other mitigation for delays. But the problem in Scotland was that there was mitigation.

The level of disruption is not good but it's relatively minor and relatively short-term. Significant improvements have already been realised with more on the way. Elsewhere the disruption is worse, semi-permenement without resolution in the offing, and some contracted improvements have been abandoned entirely.

I don't think it's about anyone *deserving" a better service than anyone else. People in Scotland have been used to a certain high standard when First (I know...) were in charge, and haven't experienced a lot of the shambles that have taken place on certain routes in England, so it's unrealistic to expect that people would just accept a worsening of the service with a shrug of the shoulders. Nor are the two countries services all that comparable - the Scottish rail network is largely quite self confined and so really have the same character as regional networks in England do.

What doesn't help is that when Abellio took over, instead of the supposed Dutch innovation we were supposed to get, all their management were imported from... England! So it's not the biggest surprise when the rail service here begins to mirror the experiences of that country.

I would also point out that services to and from Glasgow Central seem relatively unaffected by what is going on. Granted there hasn't been a large scale introduction of new units here, but these routes I would definitely argue are the best in the country in terms of reliability etc. We can only hope that what is happening on routes from GLQ, EDB and all points north will be resolved over time, but it is pretty clear that as far as people in these parts of the country are concerned, the ScotRail service is considered a bit of a pantomime. The worry is that this reputation could be difficult to shift.

Telling people not to moan because some region of England has it worse really isn't going to cut it. Nobody is interested. Well done to Abellio on the remarkable achievement of making First seem professional and competent.

 

[Stopper]

Totally agree. The ‘it’s better than Northern/Thameslink’ type excuses are old, boring and irrelevant. Frequently used by people desperate to defend ScotRail’s shambolic current state.

As for shifting the reputation....that will be hard, near impossible. That’s a very long term job. Ask the majority of the country what they think of ScotRail and most will have a negative answer.

 

[alangla]

I would also point out that services to and from Glasgow Central seem relatively unaffected by what is going on.

High level! Low level went to pot a long time ago, mainly down to Network Rail failures. The starting short/stop skipping policy has some lovely effects on the low level lines, generally involving racing to Rutherglen via the WCML missing out the R&C or Hamilton Circle or Motherwell to Lanark at the first hint of trouble.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

High level! Low level went to pot a long time ago, mainly down to Network Rail failures. The starting short/stop skipping policy has some lovely effects on the low level lines, generally involving racing to Rutherglen via the WCML missing out the R&C or Hamilton Circle or Motherwell to Lanark at the first hint of trouble.

Oh it's delightful to see a train whizz by you at Bridgeton cause it's been held up somewhere and it's completely empty as it goes by. The Argyle Line has always been bad and it was shambolic in the morning peaks a few months ago.

 

[alangla]

Currently (0645) 41 cancellations. Couple in Ayrshire for overrunning engineering (no idea where, it’s only taken out 1 Ayr and 1 Ardrossan), 1 shortage of crew in the peak and loads of train faults. Bizarrely, when you get to about 11:30, PHBT earlier appears to be the reason for several, I assume a wrong code or are they trying to blame an incident on a previous day for a crew being off work? Afternoon & evening isn’t great, Cumbernauld bearing the brunt as usual- shortage of crew

 

[cairntoul]

7am Glasgow Queen Street to Edinburgh just cancelled, supposed to be calling at Lenzie, Falkirk High, Polmont, Linlithgow, Haymarket. Normally a packed train.

 

[Stopper]

Going by RTT, these new Cumbernauld services that nobody asked for never seem to run. That could get messy between Grahamston/Polmont/Linlithgow & Edinburgh in the peaks.

 

[kilonewton]

Going by RTT, these new Cumbernauld services that nobody asked for never seem to run. That could get messy between Grahamston/Polmont/Linlithgow & Edinburgh in the peaks.

And by never, you mean all running bar 4 or 5 each way.
Granted, 3 in a row in the mid-afternoon is unacceptable, but “never” is a very long bow to draw.

 

[Stopper]

And by never, you mean all running bar 4 or 5 each way.
Granted, 3 in a row in the mid-afternoon is unacceptable, but “never” is a very long bow to draw.

“Never seem to”

Quite frequently seem to be cancelled in the peaks (last night being one) as well as 3 in a row this afternoon.

 

[haggishunter]

Today, Inverness to Aberdeen. Check planned cancelations on website. Check OK. Check App before leaving the house. Check OK. Have a noisy at Real-time-trains on route. Check OK. Reach station OK, go and get a paper and bottle of water and cancelled 'due to no staff'. Are they know not announcing all known/planned cancelations in advance to make the figures look better for the media in the morning? ScotRail appears to have rapidly gone from a train operator to a sh!te show.

 

[47271]

Has there been a single word out of the Transport Minister on the present situation, I'm not aware of anything?

 

[Carntyne]

Lots.

 

[47271]

Lots.

I must be reading the wrong articles then - what's Matheson saying?

 

[InOban]

I get the impression that although the guard's dispute is officially over, staff are informally being uncooperative, in that they are not volunteering to work overtime/rest days, as they are entitled to do. Am I right?

 

[380101]

I get the impression that although the guard's dispute is officially over, staff are informally being uncooperative, in that they are not volunteering to work overtime/rest days, as they are entitled to do. Am I right?

No. Its pretty much down to lack of staff trained on the HST slam door sets. And staff having their entitled days off is certainly not being uncooperative. Nobody should be expected to work their day off, ever! The problem is a long standing one in that management never recruit enough staff to run the place without relying on overtime. A situation that is unlikely to ever change, no matter who runs the franchise.

 

[68000]

High level! Low level went to pot a long time ago, mainly down to Network Rail failures. The starting short/stop skipping policy has some lovely effects on the low level lines, generally involving racing to Rutherglen via the WCML missing out the R&C or Hamilton Circle or Motherwell to Lanark at the first hint of trouble.

Rutherglen is on the Argyle line so how can the units race to Rutherglen via the WCML?

Edit: Get it now, you are referring to the west bound services. I must say, very few of the trains on my commute do this