0pmh to top speed timings

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James_D

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Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but as the doubled-up Class 220 whisked me from Durham to Newcastle this morning I couldnt help but ponder over the '0 to 60mph' times for various classes, like they do with cars, or perhaps more interestingly, 0mph to the maximum speed of each class.

Naturally I assume that there are various factors such as railhead condition, slope, amount of passengers etc, but lets say for the sake of argument, does anyone have any stats on the acceleration performances for full standard rakes of empty stock of some common classes, lets say Classes 156, 43, 91, 185, 22x etc?

Is acceleration affected when working in multiple?

Cheers!
 
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gimmea50anyday

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A 185 will leave a 220 for dust, but the top end speed would soon see a voyager catch up. That said a voyager from reading to Didcot limited to 100 om the slows will get there quicker than a HST doing 125 on the main
 

D6975

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I wouldn't be at all surprised if the 0-60 winner is a modern suburban EMU.
 

AlexNL

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A solo driving ÖBB Taurus locomotive does 0 - 100 km/h in about 13 seconds, as can be seen in this video. That is quicker than my car (I drive a VW Polo Bluemotion). Pretty impressive!
 

Kite159

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I wouldn't be at all surprised if the 0-60 winner is a modern suburban EMU.

When I was reading one of the railway magazines which did 0-60 times as comparisons the fastest at the time was a 357.

Or a 395 on HS1
 
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blotred

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Not quite on heavy rail, but on the stretch of the Jubilee/Metropolitan line from Wembley Park to Finchley Road, a 1996 Stock Jubilee line train will easily out-accelerate the Metropolitan line S stock.

Either both from a stand when both leave Wembley Park, or even from a Jubilee line stop catching up to a passing Metropolitan line train.

I assume the 1996 stock is a lot lighter, and has a lower top speed as well compared to the S stock.
 

Harbornite

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A solo driving ÖBB Taurus locomotive does 0 - 100 km/h in about 13 seconds, as can be seen in this video. That is quicker than my car (I drive a VW Polo Bluemotion). Pretty impressive!

I do like the Taurus locomotives, one of them holds the speed record for locomotives. I saw a handful of DB Class 182's and an MRCE one when I was in Berlin, although they were of the ES64U2 variant rather than U4.
 

AJM580

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It's worth getting hold of Rail Express as they have a regular article that covers 0-60 performance. The info there covers a fair few classes. (this month the Chiltern 172s)
 

306024

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Would a 350 or 380 top the sheets for EMUs?

If they are anything like a 360 (the Great Eastern ones) then quite likely. Apply full power from a standing start and the acceleration of a 360 is rather impressive. The only snag is standing passengers have a chance of losing their balance.
 

gimmea50anyday

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Think a 220 was specified 0-60 in 60s but achieved 0-60 in 42s . Sure that was quoted to me back in my VXC days, have raced a 220 out of York on a 185 and the 185 was quicker off the mark so if 42 sec is true then the 185's really are **** off a stick!
 

SpacePhoenix

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If they are anything like a 360 (the Great Eastern ones) then quite likely. Apply full power from a standing start and the acceleration of a 360 is rather impressive. The only snag is standing passengers have a chance of losing their balance.

Would the 3 car 380s be much quicker then the 4 car 380s?
 

KingDaveRa

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Not a D/EMU, but I seem to recall reading about some sort of locos (possibly Deltics) running light engine and some drivers having a tendency to really open them up, doing 0-60 in about 6 inches. If memory serves, it caused issues with flat rails or wheels?

(This unhelpful post brought to you by a shaky memory of something I read somewhere, at some time...)
 

306024

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Figures from the Eversholt website show acceleration in m/s2 as 0.9 for a 4 car 380, 1.0 for a 3 car 380. A 4 car 360 is around 1.0 from memory.
 

IanXC

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Think a 220 was specified 0-60 in 60s but achieved 0-60 in 42s . Sure that was quoted to me back in my VXC days, have raced a 220 out of York on a 185 and the 185 was quicker off the mark so if 42 sec is true then the 185's really are **** off a stick!

Interestingly on that, taking Doncaster to York, my top 3 fastest journeys are all on EMT 222s, outdoing XC 220/221s. Whether that's due to TOC driving policy or whether there is a performance difference I have no idea!
 

FordFocus

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Think both the 185s and Voyagers have since been derated to save on fuel. Both the same sort of MTU engine?
 

Taunton

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The old Clacton Class 309 express units were the fastest I recall, they just never stopped accelerating and pushing you back in your seat (if rearward facing) right up to 100 mph. Not so much on the 6.25Kv, as it was in their time, near Liverpool Street, but out of Chelmsford or (especially) Witham they could be up to full speed in maybe two minutes with a driver who knew how to handle the controller for this. It was a skill some but not all had.

London Underground, especially the Jubilee, can also do some impressive starts up to, I'm guessing, 40 mph still within the platform if you are sat at the back.
 
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gimmea50anyday

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Think both the 185s and Voyagers have since been derated to save on fuel. Both the same sort of MTU engine?

Cummins QSK19R, rated at 750hp. By the time auxiliaries and energy transfer is taken into account a 185 can put approx 550hp into the track. Expect a voyager to attain a similar figure. A 221 is a few tons heavier on account of the (decommissioned on XC) tilt equipment which has a slight but not significantly noticable effect on acceleration performance

Both fleets need the full output of the engines. The only derating is the 185's eco mode where an engine drops out once linespeed has been attained and speed set (cruise control) has been activated, or on easy routes where full power isn't needed.
 
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hwl

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I wouldn't be at all surprised if the 0-60 winner is a modern suburban EMU.

A 377/2 can get to 30mph in 19s (and 60 in 48s) on AC on the WCML. The 378s have more installed power so would probably win if they could get near their top speed on AC.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Figures from the Eversholt website show acceleration in m/s2 as 0.9 for a 4 car 380, 1.0 for a 3 car 380. A 4 car 360 is around 1.0 from memory.

Those acceleration rates apply till about 25mph.
 

notadriver

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Cummins QSK19R, rated at 750hp. By the time auxiliaries and energy transfer is taken into account a 185 can put approx 550hp into the track. Expect a voyager to attain a similar figure. A 221 is a few tons heavier on account of the (decommissioned on XC) tilt equipment which has a slight but not significantly noticable effect on acceleration performance

Both fleets need the full output of the engines. The only derating is the 185's eco mode where an engine drops out once linespeed has been attained and speed set (cruise control) has been activated, or on easy routes where full power isn't needed.


The engines were derated in all types from 750 bhp to 700 bhp to prolong engine life.

Are you sure an engine drops out when line speed is reached ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

FordFocus

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I believe so on the TPE 185s. Eco Mode was programmed in a modification and I believe the driver can shut down an engine to save fuel.
 

gimmea50anyday

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When at linespeed drivers briefly drop the power to nothing, then back to full power. Thus activates speed set, a kind of cruise control. The TMS will then roll back the power on one of the engines which after a couple of minutes at idle will then shut down. Driver will then restart the engine at the next station stop.

Some routes the train will run on two engines rather than 3. This is ECO2 mode. Cheshire lines and york-Scarborough being two of those routes. ECO1 mode is for depot and shunt moves and is one engine only
 

AM9

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A 377/2 can get to 30mph in 19s (and 60 in 48s) on AC on the WCML. The 378s have more installed power so would probably win if they could get near their top speed on AC.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Those acceleration rates apply till about 25mph.

Maybe this conversation would be more meaninful if MUs were ordered in the time taken to achieve a certain percentage of their maximum speed. For example, a much used figure in response times of electric & electronic circuits is 'Time Constant', or the time to 63.2% of maximum. Apart from adhesion considerations at very low speeds, the speed/time curve of vehicles with constant power drive approximates a TC curve until aerodynamic effects start to kick in.
The selection of trains for a particular service normally matches dynamic performance to the required service performance. The two critical parameters are acceleration and maximum (service) speed. Thus there are train classes of almost identical power to weight ratios, (which is the major consideration for both parameters) but with different gearing giving the desired faster acceleration vs higher top speed.
The fastest accelerating vehicles otherwise are likely to be trams or even tube stock where their light weight, and very low maximum speeds allow them to race up to 25mph which is frequently all that is encountered in much of their normal service.
Lets assume that at Watford Junction, the slow lines carried the 378 stoppers. The fact that one could probably get to the braking point for Bushey well before a much higher powered 390 is irrelevant unless either the 378 is expected to stand in for a 350 fast to Euston*, or the 390 is running on the slows as the fasts aren't available.

* Notwithstanding any interior seating issues that might be aired here!
 
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The Planner

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We don't model or create running times at anything above 0.6m/s² (it is actually slightly less but I can't remember the exact figure, 0.588 or similar)
 

47271

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Not quite on heavy rail, but on the stretch of the Jubilee/Metropolitan line from Wembley Park to Finchley Road, a 1996 Stock Jubilee line train will easily out-accelerate the Metropolitan line S stock.

Either both from a stand when both leave Wembley Park, or even from a Jubilee line stop catching up to a passing Metropolitan line train.

I assume the 1996 stock is a lot lighter, and has a lower top speed as well compared to the S stock.
Off topic question, but this post reminds me of something I've meant to ask on here, but I only think of it when I'm on the tube!

Do Central Line trains run faster between central London stations than trains on other lines such as the Northern or Piccadilly?

It's just that I always get that impression? Maybe they're just noisier?
 
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