125mph on the Great Eastern

[dk1]

Now that the entire GA fleet has been replaced, will there be a timetable recast to make use of the better performance of the new stock?

It was planned for last year but nothing happened in May either. Hopefully December but a whole host of changes depended on Cambridge for the ECML major recast which has implications across GA apparently.

Sundays on the rare occasions there are no engineering works are the best time to sample faster Norwich services particularly in the up direction where with six stops it is quite achievable to arrive Liverpool Street in 1h41m.

 

[Bald Rick]

Hopefully December but a whole host of changes depended on Cambridge for the ECML major recast which has implications across GA apparently.

It’s not December - that’s long since been submitted and is almost finished now.

 

[dk1]

It’s not December - that’s long since been submitted and is almost finished now.

Much as I thought. May 2024 but won’t hold my breath. Is what it is.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Much as I thought. May 2024 but won’t hold my breath. Is what it is.

June 2024 now as timetable change dates are now June and October with a third one provisionally in February.

 

[dk1]

June 2024 now as timetable change dates are now June and October with a third one provisionally in February.

Oh nice to see another change. I personally preferred May & September as didnt like us towing the European line.

 

[306024]

I thought this three timetables per year was to tow to the Grant Shapps line when he was transport minister, who wanted timetables to be more responsive to changes in customer demand.

The Cambridge line seems tied up with ECML changes, and would need TfL to adjust their Overground services to fit. The GEML has Beaulieu Park around the corner, so I wouldn’t expect anything major until then.

In terms if connectivity the current timetable is quite good in most cases, the Swiss wouldn‘t speed up their trains by a few minutes to jeopardise that.

As for 125mph, a complete waste of money that doesn’t exist anyway!

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I thought this three timetables per year was to tow to the Grant Shapps line when he was transport minister, who wanted timetables to be more responsive to changes in customer demand.

The Cambridge line seems tied up with ECML changes, and would need TfL to adjust their Overground services to fit. The GEML has Beaulieu Park around the corner, so I wouldn’t expect anything major until then.

In terms if connectivity the current timetable is quite good in most cases, the Swiss wouldn‘t speed up their trains by a few minutes to jeopardise that.

Sort of, the programme BTPF has been in development for a while and its in response to funders wanting greater flexibility from timetable participants plus also to recognise the fact that changing the timetable in December isn't a very good idea as well as develop timescales that are more feasible for all participants to meet.

 

[306024]

Sort of, the programme BTPF has been in development for a while and its in response to funders wanting greater flexibility from timetable participants plus also to recognise the fact that changing the timetable in December isn't a very good idea as well as develop timescales that are more feasible for all participants to meet.

“isn’t a very good idea”, a masterful understatement

 

[Alfie1014]

I thought this three timetables per year was to tow to the Grant Shapps line when he was transport minister, who wanted timetables to be more responsive to changes in customer demand.

The Cambridge line seems tied up with ECML changes, and would need TfL to adjust their Overground services to fit. The GEML has Beaulieu Park around the corner, so I wouldn’t expect anything major until then.

In terms if connectivity the current timetable is quite good in most cases, the Swiss wouldn‘t speed up their trains by a few minutes to jeopardise that.

As for 125mph, a complete waste of money that doesn’t exist anyway!

The recently published NR Strategic Business Plan https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blo...astern Region CP7 Strategic Business Plan.pdf includes a statement on a GEML recast in May 2024.

Going back to the subject of higher speeds as has been stated there’s little point on such a congested network. The better acceleration and braking of the new trains is much more important but even so as illustrated by a run On Monday‘s 15:00 down (now formed of 2 x 755s) we’d caught up and were checked by the 14:54 Southend Vic by Shenfield, the 14:47 Braintree by Witham and the 14:36 Colchester Town on the approach to Colchester. That said we still arrived at 15:43 3 minutes early!

 

[The Planner]

Sort of, the programme BTPF has been in development for a while and its in response to funders wanting greater flexibility from timetable participants plus also to recognise the fact that changing the timetable in December isn't a very good idea as well as develop timescales that are more feasible for all participants to meet.

Its still not signed off yet.

 

[TheBigD]

The recently published NR Strategic Business Plan https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/strategic-business-plan/Region strategic business plans/Eastern Region CP7 Strategic Business Plan.pdf includes a statement on a GEML recast in May 2024.


View attachment 135763

Interesting in the enhancements list that the ECML service uplift is now listed as May 2026.

 

[RailWonderer]

The recently published NR Strategic Business Plan https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/strategic-business-plan/Region strategic business plans/Eastern Region CP7 Strategic Business Plan.pdf includes a statement on a GEML recast in May 2024.

Going back to the subject of higher speeds as has been stated there’s little point on such a congested network. The better acceleration and braking of the new trains is much more important but even so as illustrated by a run On Monday‘s 15:00 down (now formed of 2 x 755s) we’d caught up and were checked by the 14:54 Southend Vic by Shenfield, the 14:47 Braintree by Witham and the 14:36 Colchester Town on the approach to Colchester. That said we still arrived at 15:43 3 minutes early!

View attachment 135763

I doubt a May 2026 uplift will even happen - it would only slow down the Norwich IC and other GE services without more infrastructure improvements like the passing loop at Beaulieu. As well as faster acceleration and braking more 100mph running (Chelmsford to Shenfield for example could be upped from 90 to 100mph) and possibly 110mph from Ipswich to Norwich in some sections could save a few minutes of time. If the ECML has multiple level crossings over 125mph sections I don't see why the GE can't have a few at 110mph. 125mph is totally unrealistic.

 

[James Finch]

The recently published NR Strategic Business Plan https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/strategic-business-plan/Region strategic business plans/Eastern Region CP7 Strategic Business Plan.pdf includes a statement on a GEML recast in May 2024.

Going back to the subject of higher speeds as has been stated there’s little point on such a congested network. The better acceleration and braking of the new trains is much more important but even so as illustrated by a run On Monday‘s 15:00 down (now formed of 2 x 755s) we’d caught up and were checked by the 14:54 Southend Vic by Shenfield, the 14:47 Braintree by Witham and the 14:36 Colchester Town on the approach to Colchester. That said we still arrived at 15:43 3 minutes early!

View attachment 135763

What does this mean by "WAML TT Recast" in May 2023? From what I've seen, there is no increase in capacity/services, only a tightening of timings (from a reduction in dwell times)?

 

[Bald Rick]

and possibly 110mph from Ipswich to Norwich in some sections could save a few minutes of time. If the ECML has multiple level crossings over 125mph sections I don't see why the GE can't have a few at 110mph. 125mph is totally unrealistic.

There’s 37 level crossings between Ipswich and Norwich. The highway crossings north of Ipswich are largely Automatic Half Barriers, which have a top speed of 100mph. These would need upgrading to full barriers (most likely Obstacle Detection), with controlling signals, and you’re looking at a minimum of £3m a pop. There’s 14 of them.

And all non highway crossings must be ‘controlled‘ over 100mph, ie they must have, as a minimum, red / green lights Fail safe linked to the signalling. There’s 18 of those to upgrade.

And that’s before we talk about the OLE, Signalling, track, bridges, formation, power supply, maintenance;

Upgrading Ipswich to Norwich to 110mph couldn’t be less than a couple of hundred million, and would save 2 minutes.

Or you could just not stop the fast train at Diss and save twice as much time at no capital cost.

What does this mean by "WAML TT Recast" in May 2023? From what I've seen, there is no increase in capacity/services, only a tightening of timings (from a reduction in dwell times)?

Everything on the WAML is now on 720 or 745 timings.

The better acceleration is offset by longer dwell times.

 

[RailWonderer]

There’s 37 level crossings between Ipswich and Norwich. The highway crossings north of Ipswich are largely Automatic Half Barriers, which have a top speed of 100mph. These would need upgrading to full barriers (most likely Obstacle Detection), with controlling signals, and you’re looking at a minimum of £3m a pop. There’s 14 of them.

And all non highway crossings must be ‘controlled‘ over 100mph, ie they must have, as a minimum, red / green lights Fail safe linked to the signalling. There’s 18 of those to upgrade.

And that’s before we talk about the OLE, Signalling, track, bridges, formation, power supply, maintenance;

Upgrading Ipswich to Norwich to 110mph couldn’t be less than a couple of hundred million, and would save 2 minutes.

Or you could just not stop the fast train at Diss and save twice as much time at no capital cost.

This is the exact post I was waiting for I didn't know there were 37 crossings, I thought there were only a few.

 

[dk1]

This is the exact post I was waiting for I didn't know there were 37 crossings, I thought there were only a few.

Twelve are AHBs and three are CCTV full barrier crossings. Many are only foot which are gradually being closed where possible as are the farm phone crossings for which I can only think of a three or so now.

 

[Bald Rick]

Twelve are AHBs and three are CCTV full barrier crossings. Many are only foot which are gradually being closed where possible as are the farm phone crossings for which I can only think of a three or so now.

I originally thought it was 14 AHB, but that’s from my Sectional Appendix… checking the active list I see there’s now 13, and it seems that Hales Street has closed. Which is good news.

 

[dk1]

I originally thought it was 14 AHB, but that’s from my Sectional Appendix… checking the active list I see there’s now 13, and it seems that Hales Street has closed. Which is good news.

Hales street has not closed.

Was still there & working when I drove over it on 1P27 this morning lol.

 

[Bald Rick]

Hales street has not closed.

Was still there & working when I drove over it on 1P27 this morning lol.

in which case it is 14 AHB and the active list on the NR website map is wrong (And my sectional appendix is correct!)

For completeness, the 14 AHBs are:

Baylam
Haughley
Wassicks
Rectory Rd
Mellis
Palgrave
Audley End
Burston
Gissing No2
Hales Street
Tivetshall
Moulton
Newton Footman
Swainsthrope

3 x MCB (Claydon plus the two at Stowmarket) and 20 assorted farm / footpath crossings, although a handful of these are being closed.

 

[dk1]

in which case it is 14 AHB and the active list on the NR website map is wrong (And my sectional appendix is correct!)

For completeness, the 14 AHBs are:

Baylam
Haughley
Wassicks
Rectory Rd
Mellis
Palgrave
Audley End
Burston
Gissing No2
Hales Street
Tivetshall
Moulton
Newton Footman
Swainsthrope

3 x MCB (Claydon plus the two at Stowmarket) and 20 assorted farm / footpath crossings, although a handful of these are being closed.

Lots of farm crossings abolished but sorry, I missed Palgrave & Rectory in my one off memory. Must be the vino. I need a route refresh lol.

 

[47421]

your periodic reminder of what was promised under 2016 Franchise Agreement (yes i know the bid team were smoking dope, no one should take seriously what GA/DfT signed up to, and if the taxpayer gets to pay tens of millions lease costs for trains that will spend their time relaxing in Norwich and Ilford that is too bad etc etc etc)

 

[Bald Rick]

your periodic reminder of what was promised under 2016 Franchise Agreement (yes i know the bid team were smoking dope, no one should take seriously what GA/DfT signed up to, and if the taxpayer gets to pay tens of millions lease costs for trains that will spend their time relaxing in Norwich and Ilford that is too bad etc etc etc)

And a consequent reminder that the franchise agreement has now been terminated, new arrangements apply, and these service outputs are now no longer required (in the contract).

 

[dk1]

your periodic reminder of what was promised under 2016 Franchise Agreement (yes i know the bid team were smoking dope, no one should take seriously what GA/DfT signed up to, and if the taxpayer gets to pay tens of millions lease costs for trains that will spend their time relaxing in Norwich and Ilford that is too bad etc etc etc)

Not much relaxation of serviceable stock. Test trips cancelled this week as no 755s available as two multi unit diagrams now cover mainline too all day.

 

[Trainbike46]

Not much relaxation of serviceable stock. Test trips cancelled this week as no 755s available as two multi unit diagrams now cover mainline too all day.

How many 720s are still coming? presumably when GA has the full 720 fleet as well as the 745/755s, they wouldn't be short of stock?

 

[dk1]

How many 720s are still coming? presumably when GA has the full 720 fleet as well as the 745/755s, they wouldn't be short of stock?

Not sure really as don't have any dealings with the Alstom fleet. Hopefully it'll help as long as they don't get sub-leased.