16/17 Railcard - Not Happy!

[Envoy]

11 days ago, someone I know purchased a 16 > 25 Railcard for their 16 year old son. This Railcard is not valid on weekdays before 9.30am and gives one 30% off tickets. Now, a few days later, the 16/17 year old Railcard has been launched which is valid at anytime and gives 50% off tickets. The 16 year old in question uses the trains to go to school. So, now he is stuck with a Railcard that he cannot use to go to school and if he uses it for other journeys, he gets a 30% discount as opposed to 50%. Needless to say, the family are absolutely fuming about this.

I think that the Railways should allow all 16 & 17 year olds who have the 16 > 25 Railcard to use it under the same conditions as if they had purchased this new 16/17 Railcard. Alternatively, they should be allowed to take the 16 > 25 Railcard to a station and get a free swap to the new 16/17 Railcard. (Of course, they could simply allow all 16 > 25 Railcard users to be able to use the trains at anytime & get the 50% discount as most are students or low wage earners).

 

[AlterEgo]

That’s just like buying a product and finding out the company announced a new version just after you bought it.

Caveat emptor - the new railcard is still well worth the outlay, so they should buy that.

 

[ashkeba]

Free swaps would be a nice gesture but they could buy the new railcard too if they'll save more than it costs in extra savings.

Look on the bright side: 35 year olds still have no national railcards.

 

[Envoy]

That’s just like buying a product and finding out the company announced a new version just after you bought it.

Caveat emptor - the new railcard is still well worth the outlay, so they should buy that.

Most people are aware when say a new car model is about to come out and for some time previously, the outgoing version is sold at a good discount. This new Railcard is specifically aimed at helping teenagers who are usually not earning any money. It would have helped hime get to school at a discount. I think the Railways should do the decent thing and allow a swap for the new card.

 

[Envoy]

Free swaps would be a nice gesture but they could buy the new railcard too if they'll save more than it costs in extra savings.

Look on the bright side: 35 year olds still have no national railcards.

A 35 year old is likely to have a decent income. A 16/17 year old is likely to have no income and could well be the offspring of a 35 year old.

 

[IanD]

Most people are aware when say a new car model is about to come out and for some time previously, the outgoing version is sold at a good discount. This new Railcard is specifically aimed at helping teenagers who are usually not earning any money. It would have helped hime get to school at a discount. I think the Railways should do the decent thing and allow a swap for the new card.

I thought this new railcard was announced some time ago much like the release of a new car model.

Edit->Announced in January to be available in August. The "old model" is still available so no need to offer it at a discount, although they often do.

Also, I read that if you have an old style one you can get a £5 discount off the new one.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/n...ered-p5-off-new-16-17-railcard---but-only-if/

Frustrated teens offered £5 off new 16-17 Saver... if they've already bought a 16-25 Railcard

Teens and parents who've bought a 16-25 Railcard this summer will not be able to get a refund if they want to swap to the new 16-17 version – but they will be able to get £5 off their second purchase.

Frustrated customers who've recently bought the 16-25 Railcard have taken to social media to vent their annoyance after the new 16-17 Saver card was released today, offering generally better discounts.

People who have 16-25 Railcards – which cost £30 for a year or £70 for three years – have been told they can't get a refund even if they want to buy the new 16-17 card, which also costs £30 a year and was announced earlier this year.

The 16-25 Railcard gives a third off many rail fares, but the new 16-17 Saver card offers half-price fares, and so is generally better value.

The Rail Delivery Group (RDG), which represents train firms, says that 16 and 17-year-old customers who bought the 16-25 card between 1 July and 20 August this year can get £5 off their 16-17 card, if they buy before 31 October. However, it says once a railcard is issued it is non-refundable and can't be switched to another product.

 

[bb21]

There is always a cut-off somewhere. Someone will always be unhappy. They just happened to be on the wrong side of the cut-off this time. Things like these tend to balance out in life.

Free swaps would indeed be nice but the benefits probably aren't worth the cost of setting it up in the first place.

Teenagers not earning anything is pretty much irrelevant for the outlay. The parents can more than likely afford that if the child had to cover train fares to/from school with no help from the authorities.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Train fares to/from school should be done using a season ticket anyway. If this encourages paying on the day other than via mobile tickets the railway is going to regret it in school areas...

 

[AlterEgo]

Most people are aware when say a new car model is about to come out and for some time previously, the outgoing version is sold at a good discount. This new Railcard is specifically aimed at helping teenagers who are usually not earning any money. It would have helped hime get to school at a discount. I think the Railways should do the decent thing and allow a swap for the new card.

But it isn’t a new car - it’s something which cost 1% of that.

It seems like you’d be happier if, having come up with the idea, RDG announced it and sat on it for a year, denying people savings.

Sure, it sucks when this sort of thing happens, but that’s life.

 

[IanD]

It seems like you’d be happier if, having come up with the idea, RDG announced it and sat on it for a year, denying people savings.

They did announce it and sit on it for a few months. The info was out there that it was being launched. If they had just announced it and launched the same day, there would still have been the same kind of complaints.

 

[AlterEgo]

They did announce it and sit on it for a few months. The info was out there that it was being launched. If they had just announced it and launched the same day, there would still have been the same kind of complaints.

Thanks for the clarification. So there is really no basis for complaint at all.

 

[Envoy]

This is causing a lot of ill will towards the rail industry. People paying £30 for the 16 to 25 card to then find a 16 & 17 year olds card with better benefits appears yet expected to pay again for that - if they want it - even though the RDG ‘kindly’ give a £5 discount.

 

[alistairlees]

This is causing a lot of ill will towards the rail industry. People paying £30 for the 16 to 25 card to then find a 16 & 17 year olds card with better benefits appears yet expected to pay again for that - if they want it - even though the RDG ‘kindly’ give a £5 discount.

Maybe they should just withdraw it. Then people would be happy!

 

[ashkeba]

A 35 year old is likely to have a decent income. A 16/17 year old is likely to have no income and could well be the offspring of a 35 year old.

Are UK railcards a social security measure rather than a subscription discount card then? I think not because people's incomes don't suddenly soar when they are too old for a Young card and people in the south-east are not poorer than other parts of the country.

I think there is good reason for this new Young railcard but I think the coverage should have been completed at the same time, replacing the Network and Two Together cards with a general national Adult one.

 

[IanD]

This is causing a lot of ill will towards the rail industry. People paying £30 for the 16 to 25 card to then find a 16 & 17 year olds card with better benefits appears yet expected to pay again for that - if they want it - even though the RDG ‘kindly’ give a £5 discount.

It's certainly causing ill will in my household. The rail industry has introduced another railcard that none of us is eligible for.

 

[smsm1]

Train fares to/from school should be done using a season ticket anyway. If this encourages paying on the day other than via mobile tickets the railway is going to regret it in school areas...

The 16-17 railcard can be used for season tickets, which is unusual for railcards.

Source: https://www.16-17saver.co.uk/where-can-i-use-it/

 

[ainsworth74]

This Railcard is not valid on weekdays before 9.30am

It's worth noting that the 16-25 is valid at any-time but is subject to a £12 minimum fare on walk-up tickets before 10am (Monday - Friday outside of July and August). I.e. if you wish to buy say an Anytime Single costing £8 then you will not be able to use the railcard until after 10am but if you wished to buy an Anytime Single costing £40 then this could be discounted by a third at any time of day. Meanwhile if you wish to travel using an Advance Purchase ticket this can be discounted at any time of day no matter how cheap it is.

 

[kristiang85]

The railcard system in this country is becoming a mess (like the fares in general) - we now have 16-17, 18-25, 25-30, and 60+. Then add onto that Network railcards, Gold cards, etc.

There are plenty of people who travel by train regularly (but not regularly enough to warrant a season ticket) who are between 31-59, who don't live in certain areas, who would just as much in need of a discount. I just can't see why we can't implement a DB-style system, with progressively priced railcards entitling regular users to increasing discounts, depending on what they've paid for.

 

[Starmill]

It's certainly causing ill will in my household. The rail industry has introduced another railcard that none of us is eligible for.

All of this tinkering is only likely to result in that. It's a lot like how Network Rail staff generally don't get any form of travel discount, but they gave many Wessex staff free travel - on SWR.

A standardised national scheme of discounts, with just a few bands, would be much better. If there were just one railcard that were available generally for say £250, to people under 25 or over 60 for £200, to people who qualify for the Disabled railcard for a nominal £20 and to Network Rail or other contractors in the industry for £0. Doing away the ridiculous array of time restrictions, minium fares and whatnot would also help. A consistent national group travel discount is also needed. Fares for under 18s could simply be child fares... Etc.

 

[anme]

Needless to say, the family are absolutely fuming about this.

If they are "absolutely fuming" about this, how do they feel about major injustices such as climate change or brexit?

 

[paddington]

I don't see why they couldn't have allowed holders of a 16-25 to turn it in at a staffed station and get a 16-17 with the same validity. If you wanted a new 16-17 for a full year then pay again.

Or just raise the age limit for child fares to 18 but require proof of age (possibly with a photocard provided by the railway)

 

[danm14]

All of this tinkering is only likely to result in that. It's a lot like how Network Rail staff generally don't get any form of travel discount, but they gave many Wessex staff free travel - on SWR.

A standardised national scheme of discounts, with just a few bands, would be much better. If there were just one railcard that were available generally for say £250, to people under 25 or over 60 for £200, to people who qualify for the Disabled railcard for a nominal £20 and to Network Rail or other contractors in the industry for £0. Doing away the ridiculous array of time restrictions, minium fares and whatnot would also help. A consistent national group travel discount is also needed. Fares for under 18s could simply be child fares... Etc.

The idea of charging under 25s and over 60s £200 railcard a railcard reminds me of the Boots Theory.

A high quality pair of boots that will last a lifetime costs £200. A low quality pair of boots that start letting in water after a year or so costs £40.

Ten years later, the rich man will have spent £200 on boots, even though he could well afford to pay more. The poor man who couldn't afford to pay £200 upfront will have spent £400 on boots, and still have wet feet.

A £200 upfront cost for a Railcard for under 25s will, for the most part, only be affordable to those who could afford to pay full fare anyway. The people who need the discount to afford train travel won't be able to afford the Railcard.

If we get young people in the habit of using the train by making it more affordable, they're more likely to continue using it when they're older.

For example, in Ireland, students get a colossal discount on train travel. If I hadn't gotten the discount, I would have just taken the bus everywhere as I couldn't have afforded the train.

When I'm no longer a student and can afford to pay full fare, I'll be much more likely to do it as I know it's worth the price. If I hadn't gotten the discount I would never have travelled by train, and I probably wouldn't start because I'd be used to the bus and wouldn't appreciate that it's worth the higher price.

 

[Haywain]

I don't see why they couldn't have allowed holders of a 16-25 to turn it in at a staffed station and get a 16-17 with the same validity. If you wanted a new 16-17 for a full year then pay again

For a start, because the 16-27 Saver is not available from stations. And then there’s the possibility/probability that the 16-25 Railcard has already been used to earn discounts worth more than it cost before the new product was available. Offering a discount on the 16-17 Saver seems a good compromise to me.

 

[IanD]

Or just raise the age limit for child fares to 18 but require proof of age (possibly with a photocard provided by the railway)

That's basically what this railcard is. You just have to pay £30/yr to obtain proof of age that is acceptable to the railway.

 

[Starmill]

Offering a discount on the 16-17 Saver seems a good compromise to me.

I agree, and I'm surprised they chose to offer it. I wouldn't have predicted that they would do.

 

[furlong]

The complaint here is that the old item was sold without informing the purchaser that an alternative product was available (covering substantially the same contractual period) that would be significantly better, even though the information about that other product was already public knowledge. As such they could purchase the new product then attempt to obtain a refund (possibly pro-rata as some benefit has already been obtained) on the old product from the original retailer, trying to argue the other party unreasonably withheld information in their possession that would have materially affected the decision to enter the contract on the stated terms. (No guarantee that would succeed, but might be worth a try - a consumer rights argument.)

 

[Greg Read]

Or buy the 16 -17 card, use it for the 365 days that it vaild, then go back to using the 16 -25 card ?

 

[Puffing Devil]

I'm with the OP here as I was within a whisker of getting a 16-25 RC for my Daughter and I just caught the launch date of the new card on here. Without reading this forum I would have gone ahead and bought the 16-25 RC and we would have been out of pocket as a family.

£5 is a start, though a free swap in the first two months would have been a more understanding offer.

 

[Deerfold]

Or buy the 16 -17 card, use it for the 365 days that it vaild, then go back to using the 16 -25 card ?

The OP hasn't made it clear whether it was a 1 year or 3 year card.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

Ten years later, the rich man will have spent £200 on boots, even though he could well afford to pay more. The poor man who couldn't afford to pay £200 upfront will have spent £400 on boots, and still have wet feet.

That the wisest thing I've heard all week. So true.

Railcards need simplifying. For instance, in Germany it's 25%, 50% or 100% off. But even they complicate matters with different versions for first and second class, different discounts for regional fares systems (sometimes depending on how many zones passed through, etc., etc...).

Assuming that 100% off for a year would cost so much that you could buy the train for less, we could simply have cards for 25% and 50% off, with a lower price level (half price?) for 18-30, PRM, 60+, families, forces, whoever. 4 products, discount everything, any time, price appropriately to break even or encourage travel, according to policy. Photocard for half-price travel 11-18, to stop those trying it on in their mid teens.

I await my job offer from RDG, possibly for a long time...