1800 Guildford - Waterloo unsafe?

[GodAtum]

This train is becoming dangerously overcrowded. It used to be a 10 coach, but now it's a 5. I think most people dont expect it to be overcrowded going towards London in the evening, plus a lot of non-folding cycles dont fit on a class 444.

For example, yesterday, on arrival at Woking, someone with a non-folding cycle tried to get on but the catering trolley was already in the vestibule, so there was a big argument and the cyclist squeezed his way on.

Also, the train stops short on the platform and a lot of people wait further up not realizing. So the front carriage gets full quickly.

 

[JN114]

This train is becoming dangerously overcrowded. It used to be a 10 coach, but now it's a 5. I think most people dont expect it to be overcrowded going towards London in the evening, plus a lot of non-folding cycles dont fit on a class 444.

For example, yesterday, on arrival at Woking, someone with a non-folding cycle tried to get on but the catering trolley was already in the vestibule, so there was a big argument and the cyclist squeezed his way on.

Also, the train stops short on the platform and a lot of people wait further up not realizing. So the front carriage gets full quickly.

Overcrowded, yes. Dangerous? No.

 

[adc82140]

It's booked to leave Woking at 18:12- would it really have been the end of the world if said cyclist had waited for the 18:17 (1st stop Clapham Junct.) if there was no room?- or the 18:21? There's no shortage of fast trains from Woking to Waterloo at that time of night.

 

[Blindtraveler]

SWT could always add coaches by hiring some 442s?

 

[NSEFAN]

SWT could always add coaches by hiring some 442s?

No...

 

[168lover]

Or even the cyclist could have waited for the 18:21 which is also non stop to Waterloo

 

[Bookd]

It is interesting that the traditional rush hour one way flow no longer applies. Tomorrow I will be going to London in the evening and will probably take the 17. 46 from Feltham - this is 10 coaches ex Windsor and I will probably have a seat If I take the earlier and faster 17. 35 (8 coaches ex Reading) it is likely to be full and standing throughout.

 

[Southern]

Have a very vivid memory of returning from Epsom one evening in the 90's and the platform wasn't exactly empty, neither was the 8-455 I took to Sutton. I've seen similar scenes in recent years, especially anything heading towards Wimbledon.

Surbiton and Kingston seem to be much the same, as I imagine are over a dozen other places in the country. With an ever increasing population, it's no wonder really.

 

[Deepgreen]

You are expecting a cyclist to think of his/her fellow passengers.

I've had one trying to get on the Victoria Line, even though they are banned at all times, and get quite indignant when told to f*** off.

Spectacular generalisation/stereotypification. Most of us are only too aware of our fellow passengers and try to avoid inconvenience. I would never attempt to take a bike on a train in anything like the peaks (in either direction), and, on the few occasions when I do travel with my bike, I try to anticipate crowding/access issues to avoid conflict. I've never had a problem.

 

[bramling]

Spectacular generalisation/stereotypification. Most of us are only too aware of our fellow passengers and try to avoid inconvenience. I would never attempt to take a bike on a train in anything like the peaks (in either direction), and, on the few occasions when I do travel with my bike, I try to anticipate crowding/access issues to avoid conflict. I've never had a problem.

I agree it's a generalisation, however (and I speak as the owner and user of three cycles) I have to say a disproportionately high proportion of cyclists come across as pretty arrogant when using trains.

 

[NSEFAN]

I have to say a disproportionately high proportion of cyclists come across as pretty arrogant when using trains.

Presumably because the sensible ones know not to take a bike on a peak-time train?

 

[Antman]

You are expecting a cyclist to think of his/her fellow passengers.

I've had one trying to get on the Victoria Line, even though they are banned at all times, and get quite indignant when told to f*** off.

So you assume all cyclists must be the same?:roll:

 

[Failed Unit]

Presumably because the sensible ones know not to take a bike on a peak-time train?

Yep. I recall leaving my bike at kings cross and collecting it the next day as I was intending to catch the 1653.

Would I have got on - yes
Would I have caused a problem- probably not.

But I wanted to set an example and avoid conflict. Unfortunately the minority that don't care get noticed. Just like the ones that run red lights.

It is like some of the generalisation we see about RPIs as we remember the bad ones and not the majority of good ones.

 

[tsr]

Have a very vivid memory of returning from Epsom one evening in the 90's and the platform wasn't exactly empty, neither was the 8-455 I took to Sutton. I've seen similar scenes in recent years, especially anything heading towards Wimbledon.

Surbiton and Kingston seem to be much the same, as I imagine are over a dozen other places in the country. With an ever increasing population, it's no wonder really.

It's interesting because it's very much localised. For example, Sutton <-> West Croydon <-> Norwood Jn/LOROL has a bidirectional peak flow in some ways, but East Croydon-Clapham Jn is dramatically quieter against the traditional peak flow. You'd think the 2 major Croydon stations would be vaguely similar but it's not so.

 

[infobleep]

Spectacular generalisation/stereotypification. Most of us are only too aware of our fellow passengers and try to avoid inconvenience. I would never attempt to take a bike on a train in anything like the peaks (in either direction), and, on the few occasions when I do travel with my bike, I try to anticipate crowding/access issues to avoid conflict. I've never had a problem.

Are you the exception that proves the rule? Hehe.

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yep. I recall leaving my bike at kings cross and collecting it the next day as I was intending to catch the 1653.

Would I have got on - yes
Would I have caused a problem- probably not.

But I wanted to set an example and avoid conflict. Unfortunately the minority that don't care get noticed. Just like the ones that run red lights.

It is like some of the generalisation we see about RPIs as we remember the bad ones and not the majority of good ones.

As a pedestrian I am always pleasantly surprised when cyclist indicates to go left or right. I don't currently drive orride a bike. i do agree though that considerate cyclists wouldn't be on the trains though.

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[Southern]

It's interesting because it's very much localised. For example, Sutton <-> West Croydon <-> Norwood Jn/LOROL has a bidirectional peak flow in some ways, but East Croydon-Clapham Jn is dramatically quieter against the traditional peak flow. You'd think the 2 major Croydon stations would be vaguely similar but it's not so.

Indeed, you would think East Croydon would be the busier of the two...

Be interesting to see how the flows change when Boxpark and all the other Croydon developments are complete.

 

[GodAtum]

I'd like to thank the guard on today's service for checking tickets and making people move or pay. I feel sorry for him as he gave up after Woking!

 

[theironroad]

This train is becoming dangerously overcrowded. It used to be a 10 coach, but now it's a 5. I think most people dont expect it to be overcrowded going towards London in the evening, plus a lot of non-folding cycles dont fit on a class 444.

For example, yesterday, on arrival at Woking, someone with a non-folding cycle tried to get on but the catering trolley was already in the vestibule, so there was a big argument and the cyclist squeezed his way on.

Also, the train stops short on the platform and a lot of people wait further up not realizing. So the front carriage gets full quickly.

The train stopped on the 5 car mark as it was a 5 car. It did not stop short, but in the correct place. The coach formation is usually shown on the platform info screen and is usually correct. If this is a recent change from 10 to 5 car then people are probably not bothering to look at the information screens and walking up the platform by habit.

 

[47271]

I quite regularly travel from Waterloo to Woking or Guildford around 9am, usually on a longish Haslemere or Portsmouth service.

They leave Waterloo with about a dozen people in the carriage, but then receive a massive influx at Clapham. Not exactly full and standing, but really quite snug. A lot of the same people who are ramming the 1800 out of Guildford I suppose.

Back in the late nineties I often used to get a Portsmouth to Waterloo 442 out of Guildford around the same time of the evening, 1750 I think it was. You could have just a handful of people with you, especially if you sat in the rear coach. Changed days.

 

[GodAtum]

The train stopped on the 5 car mark as it was a 5 car. It did not stop short, but in the correct place. The coach formation is usually shown on the platform info screen and is usually correct. If this is a recent change from 10 to 5 car then people are probably not bothering to look at the information screens and walking up the platform by habit.

yeah that is what I meant. There is no info on where the trains stop, unless you know how to read the platform marks which most people dont seem to. At East Croydon, there is a manual announcement if a train is 8 car telling people to move up the platform. No such thing at Guildford or Woking, leaving half the train trying to get on at the first coach.

 

[theironroad]

yeah that is what I meant. There is no info on where the trains stop, unless you know how to read the platform marks which most people dont seem to. At East Croydon, there is a manual announcement if a train is 8 car telling people to move up the platform. No such thing at Guildford or Woking, leaving half the train trying to get on at the first coach.

Yes, would probably be useful to make audio announcements for a week or two until people adapt their behaviour.

 

[A Challenge]

As a pedestrian I am always pleasantly surprised when cyclist indicates to go left or right. I don't currently drive orride a bike. i do agree though that considerate cyclists wouldn't be on the trains though.

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I take issue with this - a cyclist, no matter how considerate, can need to go by train, but at peak times I understand it isn't allowed, and so is different to this!

 

[GodAtum]

Another uncomfortable journey yesterday. Some young men got on at Woking at proceeded to talk quite rudely and abusively. Some passengers moved away from them. they have come on a few times before.

 

[Bigfoot]

Another uncomfortable journey yesterday. Some young men got on at Woking at proceeded to talk quite rudely and abusively. Some passengers moved away from them. they have come on a few times before.

Reported to guard and btp by yourself I trust? Can't complain if noone knows about the issue. Plus btp can be informed by text so no excuses.

 

[Matt Taylor]

I worked this train last night, it only gets busy from Guildford to Clapham. I concur that it is very busy but even though people were standing in the aisle of coach two I could clearly see on the CCTV that there were empty seats in the rear coach and probably in coach 4 too.

It was not by any means dangerous and if people were prepared to look for empty seats rather than simply get on in coaches 1 and 2 and not move then I might have more sympathy. It was no different on the way back with the 1900 from Waterloo which had plenty of standees in coaches 8 an 9 while coaches 1,2 and 3 had empty seats.

 

[TEW]

Even when it was a 10-car people used to stand at the front whilst the back was empty.

 

[GodAtum]

I worked this train last night, it only gets busy from Guildford to Clapham. I concur that it is very busy but even though people were standing in the aisle of coach two I could clearly see on the CCTV that there were empty seats in the rear coach and probably in coach 4 too.

It was not by any means dangerous and if people were prepared to look for empty seats rather than simply get on in coaches 1 and 2 and not move then I might have more sympathy. It was no different on the way back with the 1900 from Waterloo which had plenty of standees in coaches 8 an 9 while coaches 1,2 and 3 had empty seats.

That's true! Yesterday was not too bad. Recently it came as a 4 coach class 450 which was surprising.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Interestingly the train is 10 cars in the platform at the Harbour but the rear 5 now stay behind and form the 1719 to Waterloo, the 1900 from Waterloo is now made up from the train under discussion plus the 1550 from Poole to Waterloo.

 

[GodAtum]

Very bad today with people being left behind at Woking as the 1734 was fast to Waterloo only.

 

[Kite159]

Very bad today with people being left behind at Woking as the 1734 was fast to Waterloo only.

Yet passengers seemed to have ignored the 17:47 departure which is also fast after Woking...

Was it because that was probably a 450 rather than a 444?