1973TS doors open whilst moving?!

[superdrive1]

They were if you believe this story anyway...

http://metro.co.uk/2013/10/23/calls...ween-stations-with-baby-next-to-exit-4158013/

Calls for investigation after Tube train doors open between stations with baby next to exit

There have been calls for an investigation into the reliability of London Underground trains after the doors on a packed Tube carriage opened between stations.

The Rail Maritime and Transport union said a baby in a buggy was near the door when it opened on a Piccadilly line train on Sunday.

The union said the incident raised questions about the safety of the trains, which it said were 40 years old but not due to be replaced for another decade.

RMT general secretary Bob Crow said: ‘Clearly, there now needs to be a formal and detailed investigation conducted at the highest level as this is not the first time our members have reported door malfunctions on the ageing Piccadilly line fleet.’

Responding to the claims, Nigel Holness, London Underground’s operations director, said: ‘Safety systems immediately alerted our train operator after a Piccadilly line train travelling to Heathrow on Sunday was found to have two doors slightly open.

‘The operator brought the train to a halt, checked the doors and ensured they could be fully closed before the train was taken to the next station where it was taken out of service.

‘The safety of our customers and staff is our highest priority and the train remains out of service while we carry out an investigation.’

Struggle to take the whole story seriously. Not disputing it happened, something must have if it's news. But the piece at the moment doesn't have anything on where on the line it happened (very vague) and Bob Crow does seem to be making it sound like a storm inside a teacup as he always seems to. May not be, but I have my doubts.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Evening Standard had more on it, it happened just before Hatton Cross where the train was taken out of service.

It's always hard to get to the bottom of a story when you have Crowbar Bob constantly shouting at volume eleven, but doors opening in service is always a bad thing. And Crowbar Bob's point- it is in there somewhere, honest- is that driverless trains would be dangerous for this reason.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Surely, had it been a driverless train, the same safety systems that alerted the driver would instead have been set to directly control the train and automatically alert the control office and the end result would have been the same - the train being stopped and examined?

 

[Dstock7080]

The Evening Standard report - online version: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/baby-in-buggy-in-tube-opendoor-scare-8898816.html
quote the "two doors being open 7-10cm", as '73 Stock have 2 doors connected to one door engine and 7-10cm is not much over the designed spring tolerance (about the size of a fist) i wouldn't cause a fuss with this issue.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't know how big your fist is but that's a gap of three inches. I know for a fact my toddler would get through a gap of three inches, so I would make a fuss about it.

I think Crowbar Bob is right to too.

I don't know how doors can be examined if there isn't a driver on board either.

 

[Dstock7080]

I don't know how big your fist is but that's a gap of three inches. I know for a fact my toddler would get through a gap of three inches, so I would make a fuss about it.

Quoting from Rolling Stock Manual issued:
"A push-back feature is provided on selected doors, generally one per double leaf door and all single leaves, where the door arms (or door lever) are fitted with ‘push-back springs’. This allows for items trapped in the doors to be released by opening the door leaf partly against the spring, and avoids injury to people trapped in the doors by limiting the force applied by the doors. The springs allow a maximum opening from closed of 100mm (4 inches)"

 

[455driver]

I don't know how big your fist is but that's a gap of three inches. I know for a fact my toddler would get through a gap of three inches, so I would make a fuss about it.

You want to start feeding your toddler if they can fit through a 3 inch gap or I am sending Social Services around!

You are seriously saying your toddler can fit through a 3 inch gap or is your post up to your usual standard?

 

[jon0844]

I'd like to see someone squeeze through a 3 inch gap. Even a newborn would probably struggle, but even a premature baby isn't exactly going to be walking around by the door - and clothing alone would add to the size.

 

[455driver]

I am thinking more about the size of the head!

Doas anyone know somebody (with the ability to walk) with a head less than 3 inches diameter?

 

[Nym]

I am thinking more about the size of the head!

Doas anyone know somebody (with the ability to walk) with a head less than 3 inches diameter?

Does it really matter?

If it indeed is pushback then how could one claim it is a failure of a safety system when the likely case is it was doing exactly what it should do.

 

[455driver]

Does it really matter?

If it indeed is pushback then how could one claim it is a failure of a safety system when the likely case is it was doing exactly what it should do.

Not really but I found Trollies statement that his toddler could fit through a 3 inch rather fanciful and just wanted clarification from him.

 

[Nym]

Not really but I found Trollies statement that his toddler could fit through a 3 inch rather fanciful and just wanted clarification from him.

Fair enough.

Either way, in my own opinion there is no way a pushback could actuate on it's own, there are only one or two failure modes I can think of that would result in the door 'being left slightly open' without any pre-load or pressure from the springs.

 

[tsr]

On the other hand, a child's small limb could get poked through and I suppose that could perhaps get caught on something, with possible dreadful results.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, but it's a rather unlikely scenario. My son isn't free to roam around on a tube train, as he'd almost certainly fall or get injured by other passengers. He certainly wouldn't be toddling over to a door and poking his head, arm or leg through.

Yes, it might still be a serious incident but let's avoid the 'think of the children' nonsense.

 

[Nym]

Lets not think of the children...

Perhaps we should worry more about the injuries that are being caused daily by the stupidity of passengers in PTI and door related incidents rather than what could have been caused by what seems to be a safety system operating correctly?

 

[455driver]

Lets not think of the children...

Perhaps we should worry more about the injuries that are being caused daily by the stupidity of passengers in PTI and door related incidents rather than what could have been caused by what seems to be a safety system operating correctly?

You cant call them that!
We all know that any person injured while on or around the rail network is always in the right and behaved impeccably and its always that nasty railways fault.

 

[Nym]

You cant call them that!
We all know that any person injured while on or around the rail network is always in the right and behaved impeccably and its always that nasty railways fault.

I'm not saying that passengers are stupid (at the moment) just that they behave with stupidity...

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm uncertain how an idiot getting injured by a train door when they're barging on as it closes is relevant to this?

A gap in train doors that's worrying enough to concern the head of the T.Ops' trade union is a gap that's worrying enough for me.

And yes, a toddler would get several appendages through a gap like that (as would quite a few adults). It isn't "think of the children nonsense" to comment on this.

 

[jon0844]

A toddler will not be freely running around inside a tube train and trying to squeeze through a door opening of a few inches.

Or at least mine won't be.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Who mentioned freely running around? Mine wouldn't be either, but equally I won't be watching out for defective doors to be springing open. If the door had been forced TfL would have said so, it's not as though the Evening Standard doesn't take every opportunity to make Crow look bad and Boris look good. Therefore it looks as though the door opened when it shouldn't have done. In a tunnel at 30mph that is dangerous.

Bob Crow thinks it is a dangerous incident. Or are we saying that the leader of the T.Ops' trade union doesn't know what he's talking about?

 

[Zoidberg]

...

... Or are we saying that the leader of the T.Ops' trade union doesn't know what he's talking about?

That did raise a smile.