2024 election and party Railway policies

[thenorthern]

With an election happening just a couple of months time I was wondering what the party policies are for each party?

So far Labour seem to be interested in completely nationalising the railways although not as much as in 2019 which makes me think that it may not be a policy that makes it into the final manifesto.

Not seen any word on the Conservatives but I assume Great British Railways will form a part of the Manifesto. I reckon as well that the restoring your railway may also form a part of it.

Liberal Democrats seem to be looking down the line of more affordable public transport.

Reform UK I don't think really mention the railways as transport wise their target voters seem to be car users.

What other policies have people seen?

 

[brad465]

I don't expect massive change, and certainly not immediately. Some relatively light changes/actions may come about if Labour get in that are quick wins and don't need to be in the manifesto: such as settling any remaining industrial disputes and if there's any notable rolling stock fleets in storage that could easily be brought into service somewhere, they could authorise this as a quick capacity boost. Southeastern and some other operators might also get new fleet orders approved immediately, both to save UK factories closing and in the hope that the benefits of those fleets start to be seen by the following election.

 

[Railsigns]

Anecdotal evidence suggests that if the Tories get back in, they'll make the trains run on time.

 

[Broucek]

Anecdotal evidence suggests that if the Tories get back in, they'll make the trains run on time.

Godwin's law!!!!

 

[thenorthern]

Given Portillo has a show on GB News it would be good if he could have all the candidates for Secretary of State for Transport on as guests to discuss the railways. Leaving the controversial nature of GB News out of it I think Portillo would be a good person to discuss it as he knows a lot about railways and the political side of transport policy.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

With an election happening just a couple of months time I was wondering what the party policies are for each party?

So far Labour seem to be interested in completely nationalising the railways although not as much as in 2019 which makes me think that it may not be a policy that makes it into the final manifesto.

They haven't got the money to full renationalise but maybe an intent that train operators will be internalised in future but they need to rid themselves of an OLR approach that was supposed for short term only.

 

[Kite159]

If history is anything to go by, there are always differences between what gets promised/said before an election and what actually happens post election. For all parties.

 

[Mojo]

Given Portillo has a show on GB News it would be good if he could have all the candidates for Secretary of State for Transport on as guests to discuss the railways. Leaving the controversial nature of GB News out of it I think Portillo would be a good person to discuss it as he knows a lot about railways and the political side of transport policy.

Louise Haigh (Shadow Transport Secretary) was actually on GB News this afternoon and said that she will, in the next two to three weeks, be detailing Labour’s previously announced plans to renationalise the railways in the first term of a Labour government.

PMQs Live | Wednesday 31st January

Britain's Election Channel brings you live coverage of Prime Minister's Questions as Rishi Sunak and Sir Keir Starmer go head to head in the House of Commons...

www.youtube.com

Skip to 49 Min 05 Sec.

 

[Thirteen]

I wonder if we might see transport authorities such as TfL get long term funding. With a Labour Government and a likely Labour Mayor, it wouldn't surprise me especially things like rolling stock upgrades in order to keep the Siemens factory in Goole open.

 

[physics34]

Labour to renationalise train operators with no compensation

Shadow transport secretary says Britain’s railways are ‘broken’ and party’s plan to fix them will ‘bring significant savings’

www.telegraph.co.uk

I think this passed a most people by... maybe because she announced it on GB news, Shadow Transport secretary says an announcement on plans to renationalise the railway will be made in two or three weeks.

 

[Ken H]

Labour to renationalise train operators with no compensation

Shadow transport secretary says Britain’s railways are ‘broken’ and party’s plan to fix them will ‘bring significant savings’

www.telegraph.co.uk

I think this passed a most people by... maybe because she announced it on GB news, Shadow Transport secretary says an announcement on plans to renationalise the railway will be made in two or three weeks.

So 'renationalising the railways' means bringing the rest of the TOC's in house at the DfT. No mention on how this will benefit the fare paying passenger. Of course the unwritten bit of the announcement is that Network Rail would be nationalised as well - but it already is.
And nothing about how they would nationalise the ROSCO's. Nor anthing about the massive amount of outsourcing the railway does now.

 

[Trestrol]

Do they mean the remaining bits that aren't operated by DOR? Network Rail is government owned anyway. Pity they didn't stop privatisation in 1997 when they had the chance it would have saved a lot of bother in hindsight. Or was the treasury creaming too much money from it.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Telegraph mischief making - why would compensation be payable to train operators if they are returned to state control as when their contracts expire?

 

[LCC106]

Can’t access the full story. Could it be pasted into the thread please?

 

[physics34]

Do they mean the remaining bits that aren't operated by DOR? Network Rail is government owned anyway. Pity they didn't stop privatisation in 1997 when they had the chance it would have saved a lot of bother in hindsight. Or was the treasury creaming too much money from it.

I gathered the gist of it was bringing network rail and the TOCs together... similar to the failed GBR plan but a fully nationalised version.

Correct about 1997, although after so much under investment i do thing we needed some kind of private input. 4000 slam door carriages had to be replaced.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Can’t access the full story. Could it be pasted into the thread please?

First couple of paragraphs

Labour will push ahead with the renationalisation of train operators, Louise Haigh, the shadow transport secretary, said on Wednesday.

She said the party plans to bring the railways into public ownership as private contracts expire, meaning operators would be in public ownership within five years. Because of the contracts expiring, the companies would not receive compensation.

The article goes on but the rest of it doesn't add any more actual information about the plans.

And I agree with @Sir Felix Pole - the headline of the article is basically mischief-making.

 

[physics34]

First couple of paragraphs



The article goes on but the rest of it doesn't add any more actual information about the plans.

And I agree with @Sir Felix Pole - the headline of the article is basically mischief-making.

There was a little bit more on the GB news interview

Labour will outline plans to nationalise the rail network in weeks, claims shadow transport secretary

Labour will set out its plans to nationalise the rail network in the next few weeks, the party’s Shadow Transport Secretary has revealed.Lousie Haigh told GB News: “I think anybody who's tried to travel, particularly across where I'm from, the north of England, we recognise that our railways are...

www.gbnews.com

I understand many people arent fans of GB news but they were the only tv outlet covering this

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's still no sign of Labour's wider plan for the railways (structure and funding).
Not letting any more private TOC contracts is not a solution to the problems, and we've heard the policy many times now.
Has she spoken to Kier Starmer and Rachel Reeves who are currently buttering up the private sector so they stay on side, while promising not to spend their way out of the various crises?

I bet "fully nationalised" does not include freight, rolling stock and open access, insourcing anything by Network Rail, or DfT control of devolved operations.
Will Labour's DfT and Treasury give control to an independent "GBR"?
I doubt we will get much more detail before the election.

 

[irish_rail]

The only way this will lead to cost savings is if resources (both staff and physical) are pooled. Just ending a franchise at its end date and keeping it as a separate franchise (albeit Government owned) won't solve anything. It is pooling of resources through franchise amalgamation that can lead to cost savings, and I bet you any money this won't happen.

 

[trebor79]

Do they mean the remaining bits that aren't operated by DOR? Network Rail is government owned anyway. Pity they didn't stop privatisation in 1997 when they had the chance it would have saved a lot of bother in hindsight. Or was the treasury creaming too much money from it.

I gathered the gist of it was bringing network rail and the TOCs together... similar to the failed GBR plan but a fully nationalised version.

Correct about 1997, although after so much under investment i do thing we needed some kind of private input. 4000 slam door carriages had to be replaced.

How could Labour have "stopped privatisation"? They took office on 2nd May 1997. All the contracts had been signed and executed by the end of March 1997. There was nothing to stop.

 

[Oscar46016]

Surely better use of stock will save money by not limiting it to one particular franchise?

Why not get 800s running ECML, NE/SW and GWR?

 

[physics34]

The only way this will lead to cost savings is if resources (both staff and physical) are pooled. Just ending a franchise at its end date and keeping it as a separate franchise (albeit Government owned) won't solve anything. It is pooling of resources through franchise amalgamation that can lead to cost savings, and I bet you any money this won't happen.

Youre right it should. Flexibilty is the key amongst Crew, stock, rostering, facilities etc. It is stupidly fragmented.

 

[Acfb]

I don't believe Louise Haigh will last very long because I don't trust Starmer very much. I suspect we will end up with a 'Blairite' cabinet and someone like Douglas Alexander, Mary Creagh or Pat McFadden will probably become Transport Secretary in short order.

EDIT: having just looked it up though I'm amazed Stephen Byers only lasted a year though as he was such a major Blairite figure in the government who had to deal with the mess of railtrack.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Surely better use of stock will save money by not limiting it to one particular franchise?

Why not get 800s running ECML, NE/SW and GWR?

That sounds good in principle, but are there actually many places where that could happen in practice? We have so many microfleets that are only used by one TOC/on a few specific routes, where it'd be like, if you sent a couple of units elsewhere, who'd be able to drive/maintain them? I could see that working well in the long run if renationalising meant we started ordering fewer microfleets and more standard trainsets of a single design for use across the country - but that will take decades to have a big impact.

 

[Facing Back]

Telegraph mischief making - why would compensation be payable to train operators if they are returned to state control as when their contracts expire?

Why is it mischief making? It simply states that no compensation is due at it will happen when contracts end.

It makes no reference to the ROSCOs. Are all train leasing deals due to expire in the next 5 years?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Youre right it should. Flexibilty is the key amongst Crew, stock, rostering, facilities etc. It is stupidly fragmented.

It was fragmented under BR's sectors.
Not as much as now, but there was no mixing between IC, NSE and RR.
TfW and Scotrail won't give up their stock.
800/801s are tied to particular depots and routes (for 20-odd years).
The various product lines for rolling stock (CAF, Siemens, Alstom etc) mean their spheres of operation are constrained by (manufacturer-owned) maintenance depots.
Good luck finding other work for Pendolinos.
HS2 will be more of the same.

 

[Trestrol]

How could Labour have "stopped privatisation"? They took office on 2nd May 1997. All the contracts had been signed and executed by the end of March 1997. There was nothing to stop.

Labour were in power for 11 years and apart from getting rid of the loony tunes that was Railtrack what else did they do. Weren't franchises only five years? If so they had plenty of opportunity. The longer it was left the more the organised structure that BR had built was lost.

 

[Horizon22]

Labour were in power for 11 years and apart from getting rid of the loony tunes that was Railtrack what else did they do. Weren't franchises only five years? If so they had plenty of opportunity. The longer it was left the more the organised structure that BR had built was lost.

They created the (short-lived) Strategic Rail Authority (SRA).

 

[physics34]

It was fragmented under BR's sectors.
Not as much as now, but there was no mixing between IC, NSE and RR.
TfW and Scotrail won't give up their stock.
800/801s are tied to particular depots and routes (for 20-odd years).
The various product lines for rolling stock (CAF, Siemens, Alstom etc) mean their spheres of operation are constrained by (manufacturer-owned) maintenance depots.
Good luck finding other work for Pendolinos.
HS2 will be more of the same.

My depot for example did passenger EMUs, DMUs, freight/maintainence, sandite, loco hauled passenger trains until 1994. Now it just signs 1x EMU type and 1x DMU type. So much traction and route knowledge just lost in the blink of an eye. Of course u wont be able to completely reamalgamate everything, but there would certainly be room for some cost saving reorganisation

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I doubt we will get much more detail before the election.

I feel you are probably correct.