455/7 PEP/class 508 trailers

[WesternLancer]

That's something that has just been going through my head, as at the time the 4 car and 2 car PEP's were still hovering around, albeit withdrawn from revenue service by the time the 508's were built. AFAIR only ever witnessed the 2 car (as a silver/bare metal 2 car unit) on Shields Road if my memory is half correct, although 4001/4002 being on my old patch I got to ride on, the last occasion being on an UP Sheppy service one dark, rainy, dismal November evening in 1976, just before they were taken out of service. Remember the brightness of the interior compared to my usual SUB/EPB modes of transport, but also recall how all the windows were so misted up that many people were struggling to see the stations/names they wanted to alight at, not helped by station lighting also being dimmer in many cases back then.

Couple of not so good images, which I may have posted previously, so apologies for any repetitiveness ! The PEP, although it may appear that the silver/bare metal 2 car is sandwiched between the two blue 4 car units, this is not so, as the siding they are sitting on could only accommodate 8 cars between the buffers and the boarded crossing in the foreground, so suggest that 4002 had one silver MOBS at the time?
The 3 car 508 (visible) 508010, plus at least one other, being on Birkenhead shed awaiting entry to service with Merseyrail.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2025 ==


BOLD highlighted by me: Yes, a very fair point, from a planning, and all operational angles come to that, a single fleet type is the optimum for any one specific service group, which is why even today the 701 concept on SWR was potentially/should have been a game changer (in theory) for the old L&SW area, the nearest to it being during the all steel 4 SUB era. But having said that, having come from an age when four different types operated side by side out of one maintenance facility, there are certain other issues (relating to a single fleet type) that may cause very real and valid concerns for some involved on the ground.

Thanks. Great to see those pics. The past that was the future

 

[norbitonflyer]

The PEP, although it may appear that the silver/bare metal 2 car is sandwiched between the two blue 4 car units, this is not so, as the siding they are sitting on could only accommodate 8 cars between the buffers and the boarded crossing in the foreground, so suggest that 4002 had one silver MOBS at the time?

It was actually 4001 (the unit in the foreground) that swapped a driving car with 2001. I don't know why this was done, but note that the three units had four different designs of bogies - 2001 had BP8s, 4001 had BT5s, 4002 had mark 6s except on one driving car which had Type Fs. By swapping driving cars between 2001 and 4001, each unit had two different types of bogie. Or it may have been done to compare painted/unpainted cars in use after transfer to the SWD (where only eight car trains were possible on most suburban routes until about ten years ago)

I understand they were swapped back before 2001 took on a new life, with a new-build pantograph car, as a test bed for ac/dc working (unit 920001: precursor to the 313s)

 

[Big Jumby 74]

It was actually 4001 (the unit in the foreground) that swapped a driving car with 2001

You are correct, I stand corrected ! I miscounted the number of doors on the blue cars and my photo being of not so good quality....you get the gist! I have another shot of one of them in 1980 (a few years later) numbered as '056' although the only written info I have now are the old Ian Allen Combined volumes, one of which mentions '057' (ex PEP) but no mention of 056 in that years edition.

 

[norbitonflyer]

You are correct, I stand corrected ! I miscounted the number of doors on the blue cars

Easily done - we're not used to three sets of doors per car

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I have another shot of one of them in 1980 (a few years later) numbered as '056'

As it happens I have just found a pic of 056 (taken by a-another, one C.J.Marsden) in Rex Kennedy's 'Diesel and Electrics on shed - Vol 5/SR' giving this as formerly 4001. I have my answer!

 

[Juniper Driver]

Didn't the 35s have the same problem in the early days?

 

[FrontSideBus]

I was down in London recently and took a 455 from Clapham Junction to Waterloo.
Spotted the lower roofline and chamfered ends of the 508 coach right away.
It was good to travel in a "508" again since all ours up here were scrapped!

You could always tell a 508 from a 507 from the inside as they had completely different air compressors.

 

[Mikey C]

I assume these carriages are the last PEP ones still operating now?

 

[stadler]

Does anyone know why they removed the Guards panels in the 508 coaches? SWT retrofitted Guards panels in all coaches during the 455 refurbishment in the mid 2000s so that they could operate the doors from the saloons. Then some time between five to ten years ago they pulled out these Guard panels in just the 508 coaches. You can still see a metal plate covering the wiring of where they used to be. They still have Guards panels in the saloon of all three of the other 455/7 coaches and in all all four of the 455/8 and 455/9 coaches. I have always wondered why just the 508 coach ones got removed?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I have always wondered why just the 508 coach ones got removed?

Given other problems (up thread) encountered in relation to the 508 trailer as part of a 455, it may have been similar technical problems that made it easier/less costly just to remove the panels from those cars. Just an educated guess?