4th 5th and 6th February Diversions around Hindley

[pokemonsuper9]

Split from this thread as it began to get off topic.

There's diversions around Hindley-Wallgate corridor possibly due to the electrification in the original thread.
I thought I'd split the thread and quote the original where necessary

I didn’t realise Southport services were considered important enough to warrant diversions, but otherwise the only Wigan - Manchester services all day would be the peak only North Western - Victoria 319 shuttles. What isn’t mentioned anywhere on the poster is that Kirkby services will terminate at Wigan.

Any idea if this hourly Southport - Oxford Road via Chat Moss service will be all Sprinters? I can’t see them deploying 769s for 2 days with nowhere for them to switch to electric.

I know it's a very short distance but could they pop them up at Deansgate for Oxford Road? They stop there.
Also it's technically mentioned in the fact that they line specifically notes "Manchester Oxford Road -> Southport", but that could definitely just be my interpretation.
It's nice to know Wallgate P3 will see proper passenger use, I can only recall seeing a passenger service there once (but 3 or so arriving), a 769 half-cancelled.

Is P3 still in use? They disconnected the PIDS a long time ago and eventually removed them I think?

Platform 3 is very much still in use, the display is definitely still there (one of the newer ones), usually just warning about whatever strikes are going on since nothing is ever planned to use it, I'll get a picture of it today if I get a chance.

Looking at timetable it's roughly consistent
Rail Replacements:
WGW -> Bolton at 15 and 45 past (5:15 -> 23:15)
arriving at 03 and 33 past the next hour
Bolton -> WGW at 15 and 45 past (5:45 -> 23:15) +an odd one at 23:50
arriving at 03 and 33 past the next hour
Calling at: Wigan Wallgate, Ince, Hindley, Westhoughton and Bolton

WGW -> MCV at 20 and 50 past (5:20 -> 22:50)
arriving after 1h 39 mins
MCV -> WGW at 20 and 50 past (5:20 -> 23:20)
arriving after 1h 29 mins
Calling at: Wigan Wallgate, Ince, Hindley, Daisy Hill, Hag Fold, Atherton, Walkden, Moorside, Swinton (Manchester), Salford Crescent and Manchester Victoria.

Southport -> Oxford Road Diversion (not Sunday)
Leaving Wigan at differing times (between 36-45)
arriving at between 15- 20
Leaving Oxford Road at 27 past (7:27 -> 22:27) except the 21:30.
getting to WGW at 00 (8->23) except 14:01, 18:03 and 21:04.
Calling at (All Stops to Southport), Wigan Wallgate, Deansgate, MCR Oxford Road


Platform 3 still has its display which still works, captured while displaying Penalty Fare warning.
The Kirkby trains on the 4th and 6th will definitely be able to use it, although they might only be 2 cars (P3 can fit 4, but a set of doors hang off)

 

[WatcherZero]

Ahh it eventually got a new PID, the old Yellow text one was removed and hadnt been replaced for months last time I used the station, eventually they removed the PID stand as well and you can tell its been fairly recently recently reerected from the ground beneath. That tactile paving looks newly laid as well.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

That tactile paving looks newly laid as well.

Yes it was, this appeared in early November by P3
It's all placed now along all the platforms now, I saw the pile get smaller as they laid more down but I didn't get more pictures.

 

[507020]

Southport -> Oxford Road Diversion (not Sunday)
Leaving Wigan at differing times (between 36-45)
arriving at between 15- 20
Leaving Oxford Road at 27 past (7:27 -> 22:27) except the 21:30.
getting to WGW at 00 (8->23) except 14:01, 18:03 and 21:04.
Calling at (All Stops to Southport), Wigan Wallgate, Deansgate, MCR Oxford Road

Platform 3 still has its display which still works, captured while displaying Penalty Fare warning.
The Kirkby trains on the 4th and 6th will definitely be able to use it, although they might only be 2 cars (P3 can fit 4, but a set of doors hang off)

Bear in mind that All stops to Southport includes Bescar Lane, New Lane and Hoscar. Services depart at varying times between 05-59 the same hour and nothing the next (54-66 minute gaps) because with the Stalybridge service not running, the hourly Oxford Road needs to pick up 2-hourly calls at Bescar Lane, New Lane and Hoscar.

Stations to Kirkby can only take 2 cars anyway. When it runs as a 4 car from Blackburn, 1 set is always locked out between Wigan and Kirkby.

There may be a few spare 158s available if the Wigan - Leeds service is terminating at Victoria, but it is also diverted via Halifax and Bradford Interchange due to works at the eastern end.

Also seeing use is P2 at Bolton, with services calling at Moses Gate, Farnworth, Kearsley and of course once per day at Clifton vice the Southport - Stalybridge. The interesting thing is that Northern intends to interwork a triangle of Manchester Victoria - (Todmorden) - Blackburn - (Todmorden) - Bolton - Stalybridge - Manchester Victoria.

 

[Greybeard33]

Also seeing use is P2 at Bolton, with services calling at Moses Gate, Farnworth, Kearsley and of course once per day at Clifton vice the Southport - Stalybridge. The interesting thing is that Northern intends to interwork a triangle of Manchester Victoria - (Todmorden) - Blackburn - (Todmorden) - Bolton - Stalybridge - Manchester Victoria.

Which means that the 769s will not work the Stalybridge services, although they could be used on Southport - Oxford Road. Two of the Monday diagrams originate from Springs Branch, where 769s are normally stabled.

According to RTT, Bolton Platform 5 will be used to reverse the services from Blackburn via Todmorden back to Stalybridge.

Seeing as they appear to be going via the Chat Moss they can go electric all the way from Wigan to Deansgate, though it would require a short operational stop at Wigan Station Junction to raise/lower the pan.

The timings in RTT do not allow for a stop at Wigan Station Junction, so I imagine they will run on diesel all the way. In any case, I doubt that Northern's operating procedures permit power changeovers away from a station, because of the risk of blocking the line if something goes wrong.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Seeing as they appear to be going via the Chat Moss they can go electric all the way from Wigan to Deansgate, though it would require a short operational stop at Wigan Station Junction to raise/lower the pan.

that's the thing, there isn't a stop for using the pantograph, but I was questioning if they would pop it up for the ~500m between the two.

edit: just realised this was the construction updates thread not the diversion's thread

 

[pokemonsuper9]

so I imagine they will run on diesel all the way.

what about Deansgate <-> Oxford road, or is ~500m just not even worth being on electric for.

 

[Fedupnorthern]

Can I clarify this routing, as it will be impacting my travel. Southport to Oxford Road via Wallgate and Chat Moss. Is there a direct line for this or does it involve 2 reversals? If the latter presumably this will add extra time to counter whatever is saved by avoiding stops between Wigan and Bolton?

 

[Watershed]

Can I clarify this routing, as it will be impacting my travel. Southport to Oxford Road via Wallgate and Chat Moss. Is there a direct line for this or does it involve 2 reversals? If the latter presumably this will add extra time to counter whatever is saved by avoiding stops between Wigan and Bolton?

There is no double reversal required. There is a connection between Wallgate and the WCML just south of Wigan. It's very rarely used in passenger service but it does exist.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There is no double reversal required. There is a connection between Wallgate and the WCML just south of Wigan. It's very rarely used in passenger service but it does exist.

It's also very slow (15mph).
It would cost next to nothing for a 769 to stop and put its pan up on the WCML Up Slow.
Or maybe on the Golborne-Parkside spur (20mph).

 

[Fedupnorthern]

Didn't know about that link thanks. Wish Southport could benefit from this configuration in future. Could easily save 15 minutes on the current schedules. Perhaps if a Golborne Station is ever developed.....

 

[Greybeard33]

what about Deansgate <-> Oxford road, or is ~500m just not even worth being on electric for.

Many of the paths have a 3 to 4 minute dwell at Deansgate, presumably due to conflicting traffic. So there would be plenty of time for a power changeover, but the fuel savings would be minimal. It would be more prudent to get the diesels fired up before leaving Oxford Road.

It's also very slow (15mph).
It would cost next to nothing for a 769 to stop and put its pan up on the WCML Up Slow.
Or maybe on the Golborne-Parkside spur (20mph).

I think you mean the Up Passenger Loop, between Wigan Station Junction and Wigan South Junction? They are pathed on the Mains south of Wigan South Junction. There is only 0.5 minutes allowed between the two junctions in each direction, so no stop is envisaged. 2.5 minutes each way between Golborne and Parkside Junctions, which again is the standard time without a stop.

 

[lancastrian]

We would there be a need to raise/low the pan at Wigan? I thought that the services where going into North Western Station. as that is already wired there should be no problems.

 

[zwk500]

We would there be a need to raise/low the pan at Wigan? I thought that the services where going into North Western Station. as that is already wired there should be no problems.

Some services are booked through to Southport, so they'll have a job going into NW!

 

[lancastrian]

Some services are booked through to Southport, so they'll have a job going into NW!

Fair comment, I wasn't aware of that.

 

[Class 170101]

Didn't know about that link thanks. Wish Southport could benefit from this configuration in future. Could easily save 15 minutes on the current schedules. Perhaps if a Golborne Station is ever developed.....

But the stations that normally benefit from the Southport calls would lose out.

Previously the Barrow / Windermere's went this way and prior to that it was the Class 350 TPE services to Scotland but I wouldn't know what service you could re-route via Golborne now without Bolton losing out or increasing services through the Castlefield corridor.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Based on the location and direction of the rail replacement stops I made this interactive zoomable map that represents what I think the route will look like for the busses.

MetroDreamin' | RR for WGW - BOL and MCV

RR for WGW - BOL and MCV | MetroDreamin' map by pokemonsuper9

metrodreamin.com

Ignore roundabout logic not being followed, and dual carriageways just having one line in the middle
Yes services between Daisy Hill and Hindley pass Westhoughton, I've seen it happen
The Lime parts are where WGW <-> MCV is significantly different based on which direction
I think they won't u-turn at Hindley but they might, I've seen it both ways.

I am not a staff member at Northern, or any rail replacement provider, I am just figuring out what routes are likely based on what side the stops are, and my own memory.

Looking at the block through Hindley this weekend, am I correct in thinking that the hourly Southport to Manchester Oxford Rd service that will go through Wigan Wallgate but then pick up the WCML down to Golborne Junc is an unusual move that rarely (if ever ) gets a passenger service over it. Has this ever been regularly timetabled in the past for a passenger service?

It's certainly not been a timetabled move for many years

This is the first time there's been a Wallgate <-> WCML passenger service that I've been aware of, there have probably been some cases in the past when diversions have led them that way but I don't have any knowledge.

Realtime Trains | 6C90 2051 Carlisle N.Y. to Walkden | 03/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 6C90 2051 departure from Carlisle N.Y. to Walkden on 03/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Spotted this unusual "Civil Engineer" service, although it terminates at Walkden, I thought the works would be for Hindley not Walkden?

 

[507020]

I was correct about rolling stock. 3 diagrams running between Southport and Oxford Road, with 1 pair of 150s and 2 pairs of 158s. No 769s in use today.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I noticed from a rail replacement coach today that they were taking this chance to do some other work, saw some going on at Salford Crescent and some down the line from Swinton.

Coach was very lightly used, only 10 people getting off at Manc, and the one back wasn't busy either, although they'll be busier tommorow with annoyed commuters.