5 1/2 day working week - when did extra peak trains on Saturday stop?

[deltic]

I'm sure this has been covered before but can't find a reference to it. Working Saturday mornings was common and the railways ran morning peak time services Monday to Saturday and extra peak services at Saturday lunch times. When did this practice stop and were there any regional differences in terms of extra Saturday peak services?

 

[Magdalia]

Reference to it was made here:

Saturday timetables significantly different to Mon-Fri? (summer specials excluded)

Wondering how many instances in modern times (let's say 1965+) there were on busier, clockface-type routes in which the Saturday timetable was significantly different to Mon-Fri? I'm excluding the more obvious examples, such as Saturday summer holiday specials. There is definitely one example...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Looking at the 1966/67 ScR timetable the 08.10 and 08.29 peak extra trains from Helensburgh both ran on Saturdays although the 09.05 did not - all three were expresses rather than the normal stopping service. There was one Saturday return extra, also express, 12.04 from Bridgeton Central, 12.09 from Queen St, non stop from Charing Cross to Dumbarton Central, whilst, as one would expect, the two early evening expresses did not run on Saturdays.
On the south electrics - then only Cathcart lines and extending to Neilston, and Motherwell via Kirkhill - there were several 12.0x and 12.1x Saturday only trains.

Clearly, in Glasgow at least, Saturday morning office workers were expected to head home around noon.

I cannot say how many years these Saturday arrangements continued for.

 

[Taunton]

Saturday morning work ran down quite quickly in the 1960s. Not only that, at our school we had Saturday morning lessons as well (and proper standard lessons, not a makeweight). Those went too. It brought various other changes. Firstly it expanded the commuter radius, for instead of just one day off a week, there were now , and people felt more able to make longer trips - over an hour each way for four hours work on Saturdays would be tedious. Secondly it impacted on Season ticket value, which was traditionally priced on a discount from six returns, now only five were being made.

Even less realised nowadays was that major city department stores did the same, and closed on Saturday afternoons, so for some their hours never coincided with being away from work. That had an impact on shopping trips as well. Ending Saturday morning work seemed to coincide with these stores now opening all day Saturday. The last place I found with Saturday lunchtime department store closing was ironically Berlin, in about 1993, when we were all hustled out of KaDeWe at 1pm.

And likewise were the railway enthusiast excursions of the era, the pioneer Ian Allan ones, etc, which started to a considerable extent from city termini at about 1.30pm, so people could get along after Saturday morning work. They thus couldn't get that far, and would only run in summer, otherwise it would get dark too quickly.

 

[30907]

On the SR, Saturday morning peak and lunchtime extras continued to the mid 60s.
My father, a Civil Servant, stopped working alternate Saturday mornings when I was at primary school.
Like Taunton I had Saturday morning (secondary) school (about 10% of the school were boarders IIRC) - and the reduced frequency (30v20, combined with a failure to operate 8EPB) caused some problems.
I suspect the cut went with the 1967 timetable revamp, but can't check.

The last place I found with Saturday lunchtime department store closing was ironically Berlin, in about 1993, when we were all hustled out of KaDeWe at 1pm.

German shopping hours were very restrictive - stores legally had to close at 4pm on Saturdays and I think 6pm SX until well into the 90s, certainly in towns.

 

[Gloster]

German shopping hours were very restrictive - stores legally had to close at 4pm on Saturdays and I think 6pm SX until well into the 90s, certainly in towns.

I think that there was an element of local decision making. My recollection is that the larger cities tended to stay open into the middle of the afternoon, but smaller towns shut up shop around midday or one p.m. There was probably also a variation between states: I would expect the more Catholic south to closer earlier than the north. (This is very broad brush.)

 

[darwins]

Even less realised nowadays was that major city department stores did the same, and closed on Saturday afternoons,

That does surprise me. Shops in provincial towns worked five and half days, with every town having an "early closing day" between Monday and Friday so that the shops could stay open on Saturday afternoon.
Although they lasted longer, it seems that early closing days are now also disappearing. Though much reduced "market days" are still a bit of an event, though not deserving of extra trains for many years past.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Although they lasted longer, it seems that early closing days are now also disappearing.

Still a thing in some smaller provincial towns. Tends to be the independent stores who either close early (or don't open at all in the first place) on some random midweek days of the week.

 

[Taunton]

I can't remember if the city department stores had a midweek early closing day as well, I don't recall it so maybe this was their way of a 5.5 day working week. Taunton was unusual in having early closing on Thursday, and different "Thursday afternoon" events were quite common. The 2pm train to Minehead was notably busier on fine summer Thursdays. Market day, normally midweek elsewhere, was Saturday, busiest of the week. That's gone as well; the significant livestock market, close to but not at the station, was built I understand in the 1920s to replace the open area in the town centre. Our gardener at the house was a farm labourer from a friend's farm, who (outside harvest month) worked five long days, but on Saturday got the bus a few miles into town, started on the garden at 8.30, finished by 12.30, my father paid him, then he went into the town, met up with his mates in a pub, and consumed much of his gardening earnings!

It always was said that the town council, where established shop owners were over-represented as councillors, made fully sure that nobody traded on a Thursday afternoon, or outside established shop hours. There was actually a by-law which enforced this.

 

[Magdalia]

The old style Eastern Region train timetables, up to 1964, gave early closing days in the index of stations.

Early closing was definitely not random: Wednesday or Thursday were by far the most common early closing days, and early closing definitely didn't happen on market day.

For a very long time John Lewis Partnership Department Stores did not open at all on Mondays.

 

[Ediswan]

Early closing was definitely not random: Wednesday or Thursday were by far the most common early closing days

I used to live near a station which had shops on both sides of the line. One side had early closing on Wednesday, the other on Thursday.

 

[Ianigsy]

I live in a small market town with a lot of independent shops and it seems to be the way now that most of them don’t open on Monday at all.

It’s interesting to note some of the trends involved - the initial impetus seems to have been from increased mechanisation and productivity but also the need to avoid overproduction. Wartime conditions no doubt also made their mark- wasteful to heat and light offices for half a working day and also no resources to run peak extras- and the post war labour market encouraging staff to move to employers with better pay and conditions. I know somebody who started his working life in the late forties/early fifties and the factories which gave two weeks’ holiday hoovered up people from those which were only giving a week.

 

[John Luxton]

Talking about Saturday working - I used to go to school on Saturdays in the 1970s!

Up to 9 it was normal Monday to Friday. 9 to 12 up to 12:15 on Saturdays, over 13 to 18 to 16:30!

Before I left they were giving us one Saturday off each half term.

Saturday school was finally only abandoned in the 1980s several years after I left, presumably because they had staffing issues?

One upside of Saturday School though was longer main holidays typically 8 weeks in summer and 3 for Christmas and Easter.

John

 

[Gloster]

My late 1960s/early 1970s (private) prep school had classes on Saturday mornings right up until I left in 1973. The school was mostly day boys, with some boarders, both weekly and full-time. Recollection was that it was seen as completely normal and I think there must have been plenty of schools that did the same as there were regular football/hockey/cricket matches against other schools on Saturday afternoons.

 

[John Luxton]

My late 1960s/early 1970s (private) prep school had classes on Saturday mornings right up until I left in 1973. The school was mostly day boys, with some boarders, both weekly and full-time. Recollection was that it was seen as completely normal and I think there must have been plenty of schools that did the same as there were regular football/hockey/cricket matches against other schools on Saturday afternoons.

Yes Saturday afternoons were given over to sports. But being non sporting made things difficult. However, our rather strict head of pe realised he could never get me into sport as I often used to get an 'unfit' letter from home. I had minor chest trouble as a youngster and could easily bring on a wheezy fit.

In the end he recruited me to do teas for visiting teams. I collected the food from the canteen after lunch take it to the pavillion and make sandwiches, etc.

The upside was I got to eat some of it and on Saturdays when there wasn't visiting teams he would give me the afternoon off!

 

[Gloster]

With us it was only the full boarders and those playing in matches who stayed after the end of classes at one o’clock on Saturday: lunch was immediately after that. Day boys and weekly boarders went home to lunch, which was possibly a bit late for some. But it was obvious that it was common for schools to have a normal morning’s classes on a Saturday: we were not an outlier.

 

[duncanp]

In France, pupils go to school on Saturday mornings, but have Wednesday afternoon off.

You will often see "mercredi scolaire" and "samedi scolaire " in local bus timetables.

I also have some vintage London Bus Maps, and up until the mid 1960's, it was common for bus routes to have extensions until 2pm on Saturdays for work purposes, and extensions after 2pm on Saturdays, particularly in the summer, for leisure purposes.

 

[The Conductor]

Saturday working tailed off quite rapidly in the 1960s. In Birmingham , where I grew up, big shops were always open on Saturday afternoons- I have an idea that afternoon closure was a London thing. The rail replacement bus services which were insisted on for the Beeching-era closures of some lines, if they were peak hours only, often included a Saturday lunchtime trip, even though the real demand for it was fast disappearing (not that there was much demand in practice at any time for most such services). The 'grudge' service on Birmingham -Redditch which BR had to maintain after Mrs Castle refused closure, had a lunchtime SO round trip.

 

[6Gman]

My understanding was that Saturday afternoon shop closures were sometimes linked to the religion of the proprietor - Jewish proprietors taking a half day for religious observance.

Only ever came across it on visits to London.

 

[John Luxton]

My understanding was that Saturday afternoon shop closures were sometimes linked to the religion of the proprietor - Jewish proprietors taking a half day for religious observance.

Only ever came across it on visits to London.

Some towns in the West Country used to have Saturday as half day closing day. Seaton / Beer and Dartmouth come to mind.

Nothing religious Saturday is traditionally "change over day" for tourists I presume it is the quieter of the days particularly in the holiday season.

I also note that some visitor attractions do not operate on Saturdays in Devon and Cornwall. Launceston Steam Railway comes to mind they tend to only open bank holiday weekends on Saturdays.

 

[The exile]

I think that there was an element of local decision making. My recollection is that the larger cities tended to stay open into the middle of the afternoon, but smaller towns shut up shop around midday or one p.m. There was probably also a variation between states: I would expect the more Catholic south to closer earlier than the north. (This is very broad brush.)

Shops had to close at 14.00 on Saturdays until 1996, when it was extended till 16.00. Exceptions existed for special events and”bona fide travellers” (as they still do on Sundays). Makes opening a shop at a railway station quite an attractive proposition…

 

[Gloster]

Makes opening a shop at a railway station quite an attractive proposition…

I have a feeling that, due to the German habit of having everything laid down, it was defined as to how large the station had to be (though I think this could go down to quite a small size) and how close the shop had to be to the station. It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a little marker somewhere in the station and the shop’s main door had to be within xxx meters of it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Might not be entirely relevant, but Huddersfield to Sheffield just gained a peak extra service on Saturday tea-time in the last year or so. It previously only operated on Mondays to Fridays. Not quite sure why this change was made in the middle of the pandemic when Northern can't manage any services to Casvegas and has reduced the Bradfords to 1tp2h, but I won't complain too much as it does come in handy for after the football.

 

[Western Lord]

Some towns in the West Country used to have Saturday as half day closing day. Seaton / Beer and Dartmouth come to mind.

Nothing religious Saturday is traditionally "change over day" for tourists I presume it is the quieter of the days particularly in the holiday season.

I also note that some visitor attractions do not operate on Saturdays in Devon and Cornwall. Launceston Steam Railway comes to mind they tend to only open bank holiday weekends on Saturdays.

Many holidays lets in Cornwall now have Friday, Saturday or Sunday changeovers, presumably to spread the traffic load, so the idea of closing on a Saturday is probably less prevalent now. In any case most people are down for two weeks, so what are they supposed to do on the middle Saturday? Having said that, I believe that St. Michael's Mount is still always closed on a Saturday.

 

[Magdalia]

Many holidays lets in Cornwall now have Friday, Saturday or Sunday changeovers, presumably to spread the traffic load, so the idea of closing on a Saturday is probably less prevalent now. In any case most people are down for two weeks, so what are they supposed to do on the middle Saturday? Having said that, I believe that St. Michael's Mount is still always closed on a Saturday.

The main economic driver of this is availability of cleaners to service properties between lets.

As the number of second homes and holiday lets increases, the number of year round residents to do the cleaning shrinks because they have nowhere to live.

When the changeover was concentrated on Saturdays, it required an army of cleaners working one day a week, mostly as second jobs, for what, in those days, was called pin money.

Now a cleaner can work Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and clean three times as many properties.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

When the changeover was concentrated on Saturdays, it required an army of cleaners working one day a week, mostly as second jobs, for what, in those days, was called pin money.

Nowadays, this just means a trivial amount of earnt money, and sometimes is used in a slightly derogatory sense, but originally it was an allowance provided for a wife's miscellaneous non-essential expenses, such as the purchase of (ornamental) pins used to fasten their clothing in the days (many years ago) before buttons.

 

[John Webb]

When I joined a Civil Service Research laboratory in 1969, I found they had only finished Saturday morning working the year before. I gathered the work involved was mainly 'make do and mend' - ie maintaining equipment and tidying up after the week's work. Due to the nature of the research the site had a voluntary Works Fire Brigade; members of this had regularly used Saturday mornings for practices and overhauling equipment.

 

[Taunton]

the site had a voluntary Works Fire Brigade; members of this had regularly used Saturday mornings for practices and overhauling equipment.

That's another thing that has pretty much disappeared. In an early job I didn't volunteer as such, but had to organise and do the accounting for the training for this, and as there was a spare place on the day went along to one. We let off all the date-expired fire extinguishers at the back of the car park! I doubtless no longer could be considered "qualified", but stuck the certificate up in my old office. If you've never actually set off a big, old, conical water extinguisher they give quite an initial kick-back when they fire off, which was worth training for. A couple of the team fell over. Then the fire hose, pumped from our old, retired fire engine ... was worse.

 

[John Webb]

That's another thing that has pretty much disappeared. In an early job I didn't volunteer as such, but had to organise and do the accounting for the training for this, and as there was a spare place on the day went along to one. We let off all the date-expired fire extinguishers at the back of the car park! I doubtless no longer could be considered "qualified", but stuck the certificate up in my old office. If you've never actually set off a big, old, conical water extinguisher they give quite an initial kick-back when they fire off, which was worth training for. A couple of the team fell over. Then the fire hose, pumped from our old, retired fire engine ... was worse.

I joined our WFB soon after starting work, realising I'd see a lot of other people's work in progress which would expand my knowledge. We were trained by retired full-time fire-fighters, both of whom worked in our workshops, and who had been trainers in the fire services they had worked for, so was very well-taught. I ended up as Officer in Charge about eight years later! Eventually we had to close down as staff cuts stopped us getting practice time.....

 

[telstarbox]

Do Royal Mail do 5.5 days to cover Saturday collections and deliveries ?