60 mph on the SVR

[route:oxford]

For a strictly heritage railway, on which people travel only for interest, enjoyment or nostalgia, I see little need for speeds in excess of the current 25MPH limit.

If they run any faster on a heritage line, the customers wouldn't buy so many treats from the buffet...

If a heavy steam loco with limited sighting, and slam door stock is safe at 25MPH, I would expect a 158 or similar to be no less safe at 40MPH.

Would a 101 have a significantly longer stopping distance at 40mph than a 172?

 

[richw]

Here's another argument. You can open car doors while on the motorway. While it is possible to do so, there is no requirement to lock the door. So, if I open the passenger side door while the car is on a motorway, can I sue the manufacturer claiming that they should have built the car to lock the door when the car is travelling over 25mph?

I don't see any difference between these cases. Trains used to travel at over 100mph without central door locking, but now even at 30mph it is a requirement to have them fitted. Despite this, it is still possible to open the doors of a car, lorry, and i'm sure even a bus or coach, at 60-70mph. It is surely the person's fault if they get hurt on both occassions.

Your thoughts?

I assume from this post you haven't travelled in many modern cars, the last 4 cars I've owned the doors automatically lock over 5 mph, the 4 cars have not been high end cars (vauxhall vectra, Saab 95, seat Leon and a citroen multispace) I also use hire cars of about 3 a month, and the only one I can think of in recent times without such system was a Peugeot 107.

 

[route:oxford]

I assume from this post you haven't travelled in many modern cars, the last 4 cars I've owned the doors automatically lock over 5 mph, the 4 cars have not been high end cars (vauxhall vectra, Saab 95, seat Leon and a citroen multispace) I also use hire cars of about 3 a month, and the only one I can think of in recent times without such system was a Peugeot 107.

There is often also a switch to isolate operations of both rear and passenger windows. (There has been on my last two Golfs anyway).

Back in the 70s there were also "child locks" on the rear doors of my dad's Austin 1100.

 

[richw]

There is often also a switch to isolate operations of both rear and passenger windows. (There has been on my last two Golfs anyway).

Back in the 70s there were also "child locks" on the rear doors of my dad's Austin 1100.

I think "child locks" are a standard feature on even the most basic cars.

 

[ryan125hst]

I assume from this post you haven't travelled in many modern cars, the last 4 cars I've owned the doors automatically lock over 5 mph, the 4 cars have not been high end cars (vauxhall vectra, Saab 95, seat Leon and a citroen multispace) I also use hire cars of about 3 a month, and the only one I can think of in recent times without such system was a Peugeot 107.

To be honest, I've never tried to open the door while moving at speed on the road. I don't think my parents would be too impressed if I decided to open the door while we were travelling along the A1 at 70mph. :roll:

In all fairness though, I have opened the door while we were slowing down on the odd occasion when in a rush- normally on a school morning. While we weren't going very fast, we might have been just over five miles an hour, and all that happened is an alarm sounded. The car is a Ford Fiesta (built in 2009).

 

[Class172]

Would a 101 have a significantly longer stopping distance at 40mph than a 172?

Now if they managed to get a 101 (or any other 1st gen DMU that's not a 121) running on the mainline with all the modern safety gizmos, that would be brilliant - it would keep also with the style of the SVR.

 

[Tomnick]

I assume from this post you haven't travelled in many modern cars, the last 4 cars I've owned the doors automatically lock over 5 mph, the 4 cars have not been high end cars (vauxhall vectra, Saab 95, seat Leon and a citroen multispace) I also use hire cars of about 3 a month, and the only one I can think of in recent times without such system was a Peugeot 107.

It's not something I tend to try - but I thought that such systems only locked the doors from the outside? Certainly, when you come to a stand, they still can't be opened from outside, but attempting to open them from inside results in them unlocking immediately.

 

[gwr4090]

For a strictly heritage railway, on which people travel only for interest, enjoyment or nostalgia, I see little need for speeds in excess of the current 25MPH limit.

However several heritage lines are considering running services, perhaps with modern stock, that are primarily aimed at simply getting from A to B.
In such cases a higher speed would be desireable if it can be achieved safely and affordably.
On the WSR, a maximum of 25MPH and stopping at every station is fine for those who wish to enjoy the view, watch the wildlife and observe railways as they used to be.
For those wanting to travel on a through train from the national network to Minehead, a higher speed limited stop service would seem preferable.

Perhaps there is a case for allowing modern(ish) stock with better brakes, lower track forces, and power operated doors, to work at say 40MPH on heritage lines.
If a heavy steam loco with limited sighting, and slam door stock is safe at 25MPH, I would expect a 158 or similar to be no less safe at 40MPH.

Interestingly the WSR Light Railway Order (uniquely ?) allows dmu passenger trains to run at 40mph, although this has never actually been implemented. Both the line and the dmu itself have recently been equipped with AWS throughout, although other safety features such as TPWS, central door locking etc would be required to run at over 25mph. There are NO plans for this ! The locations of the distant signals are already suitable for 40mph+ running (although I think HMRI would actually prefer them to be relocated for 25mph running).

As to faster running for through services, the WSR does occasionally run non-stops and these have taken about 55mins -60mins running at a steady 25mph throughout aside from one or two PSRs, compared with the more normal 70-90 minutes calling at all stations. I would have thought that 60mins would be fast enough. It was intended to do this with the return Vintage Trains tour back to Birmingham in May until Network Rail messed up the plans by timing the main line sections at 60mph instead of 75mph and bringing forward the return departure from Taunton. Of course 5043 made total mincemeat of the mainline schedule and could easily have left Taunton later and still arrived home on time!

David

 

[Myklebust]

I have just seen this in the Local Kidderminster paper, which seems to slightly to suggest that S V R and main line may be considering such a link
S V R andHERITAGE railways, including Severn Valley Railway (SVR), are worth £250 million to the UK economy, a report by the All Party Parliamentary Group on Heritage Rail has revealed.

More than 100 heritage railways and tramways attract tourists and provide employment as well as skills training and apprenticeships.

The group has concluded that apart from economic benefits, heritage railways also provide employment for more than 3,700 staff nationally and an outlet for 18,500 volunteers.

The study also found there was more scope to run public transport services on some heritage lines and recommended simplified planning processes to help them expand and particularly to connect with Network Rail.

 

[notadriver]

Does anyone know if people paying for railway driving experiences are permitted to drive timetabled heritage trains with passengers on or must the experience only be done with empty coaching stock ?

Also would I be right in saying that the speed limit when on a heritage railway driving experience is 25 mph? If the limit were increased maybe more people would do it for the thrill ? (My friend couldn't believe the limit is so low)

 

[Tomnick]

Driver experience trains are always (?) done with ECS trains, although they do sometimes convey their family members or friends. I don't know if this is a general requirement, but HRA guidance certainly suggests that it's how things should be (along with further guidance around decent segregation from other trains conveying passengers!).

 

[headshot119]

Driver experience trains are always (?) done with ECS trains, although they do sometimes convey their family members or friends. I don't know if this is a general requirement, but HRA guidance certainly suggests that it's how things should be (along with further guidance around decent segregation from other trains conveying passengers!).

All of the driver experience trains at the Llangollen railway are always done as ECS. Though the candidate can bring a maximum of four people with them to travel on the train of they wish to do so.

There are also rules about what happens at crossing places and so forth.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

This is possibly of some relevance.

http://www.markgarnier.co.uk/files/mark_garnier/u4/Value of heritage rail report A5 format.pdf

 

[tiptoptaff]

Also would I be right in saying that the speed limit when on a heritage railway driving experience is 25 mph? If the limit were increased maybe more people would do it for the thrill ? (My friend couldn't believe the limit is so low)

All SVR FEs are run to linespeed, of which by a Light Railway order is 25pmh (before the ****ing spons on here jump in and bleet on aboiut technicalities, I know it's not strictly 25, I am MPD staff after all). They are run as ECS, however belled through as a Class B passenger train for signalling purposes. As such, are subject to the limit placed upon passenger trains under the LRO. They do not have the dispensation to exceed 25mph, and I highly doubt they would get it, as, despite having a qualified crew on the footplate, the driver/fireman are unqulaified and I guess it would be deemded unsafe for unqulaified crews to exceed 25pmh.

Also, on the ECS point, I can vaguely remeber seeing something on the NYMR's website that their Gold experience is run on passenger trains towards the end of the week. Although, I may be wrong and it may have changed. Prehaps someone from the Moors could confirm?

 

[E&W Lucas]

All SVR FEs are run to linespeed, of which by a Light Railway order is 25pmh (before the ****ing spons on here jump in and bleet on aboiut technicalities, I know it's not strictly 25, I am MPD staff after all). They are run as ECS, however belled through as a Class B passenger train for signalling purposes. As such, are subject to the limit placed upon passenger trains under the LRO. They do not have the dispensation to exceed 25mph, and I highly doubt they would get it, as, despite having a qualified crew on the footplate, the driver/fireman are unqulaified and I guess it would be deemded unsafe for unqulaified crews to exceed 25pmh.

Also, on the ECS point, I can vaguely remeber seeing something on the NYMR's website that their Gold experience is run on passenger trains towards the end of the week. Although, I may be wrong and it may have changed. Prehaps someone from the Moors could confirm?

All footplate experiences anywhere are strictly ECS (this has always been the case at the NYMR, without exception. The "Gold" experience is not presently happening either), and are supposed to be carried out when the lines are closed to other traffic. Most of the major lines do not comply with the latter guidance.

http://www.heritagerailways.com/docs/HGR-P0036-Is01-FootplateExperienceCourses.pdf