A career as a signaller

[TRain87]

Thank you gents, upon passing this - is that when I should hand notice in, or is there anything else? I understand references and have given name of current employer and a character ref to NR. I have provisionally been given a start date for 6th March - pending medical and references but I shouldn't have a problem with either of these.

 

[eriks]

Thank you gents, upon passing this - is that when I should hand notice in, or is there anything else? I understand references and have given name of current employer and a character ref to NR. I have provisionally been given a start date for 6th March - pending medical and references but I shouldn't have a problem with either of these.

Personally I'm not handing my notice in until I get the message from NR that all pre-employment checks are complete. I've passed the medical and given references which will be fine but better to be safe than sorry!

 

[magillmagic]

My advice would be, don't hand your notice in until you have your start date officially in writing. That's what I was told to do. Just in case anything gets delayed. you don't want to be sitting at home having finished your old job, but not having started the new one mate

 

[NX]

I got an offer in November, but not a written start date until yesterday !
Notice in today ????????????

 

[TRain87]

I got an offer in November, but not a written start date until yesterday !
Notice in today ����

Congratulations mate. When did you have your medical? Just trying to sort travel up to London as she advised me not to drive!

 

[NX]

Medical was in November.

 

[fantaheed]

Morning all, just to update I had my interview on Tuesday and on Wednesday morning was offered the position so naturally I am absolutely delighted! Just awaiting the contract to be sent out. Thanks to all for help especially tony. If anyone has any questions about the interview I will be happy to help

 

[magillmagic]

I drove about an hour for my medical without any bother mate, I wasn't told not to.
I suppose stress and blood pressure can be the only reason, and lack of parking of course, but it wasn't an issue for me!

 

[TRain87]

Afternoon all

To those have already been successful and got the role of signaller - how long did you have to wait for medical results? I ask as I'm due my medical on 19th January and the 23rd January is the last day I can hand my notice in for 1 months notice.

After medical was finished did they give you any indication on the day that all passed apart from waiting for urine tests?

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Sooty123]

The guy who did my medical told me that I had passed but as you say that was dependant on the urine sample.
My medical was 2 weeks ago and up to press not heard anything back with a confirmation of a pass.

 

[MylesHSG]

They told me I passed pending urine results as well.

 

[TNbloke]

Hi one and all ! Just found this forum and have read all the signalling threads with much interest. Wow,how things have changed ! I'm a former BR Signalman (hate that title, Signaller - that's something else that's changed )

I was a signalman on the south west div,as it was then, between 77-90. I worked Waterloo,both as a lever frame,and a panel. I was Rest day relief for Waterloo,Queens Rd, and Waterloo & City (both ends). I also was resident at London Bridge for a couple of years. I was also RDR for Guildford,Woking and Aldershot. Did several other boxes too...seems a lifetime ago now !

Interesting to hear that signalmen/women are recruited "off the street" these days,l guess it's a case of "needs must". They sure make people jump through a lot of hoops to get hired. I note some people talking about being hired on a contract. Is that normal now ? Lots of different abbreviations being used that l've never heard before, l feel a bit like a dinosaur lol The shifts don't seem to have changed too much,although it used to be very common to have to work a double sunday (early,then back nights) and work nights saturday,back late turn sunday,and early turn monday. Does that still happen much ? It seems that signalmen don't go out doing flagging jobs,on engineering works anymore ? Those jobs were usually good earners on weekends,especially for the relief guys.

A great deal has changed for sure. The money for the guys at the top end seems very good though. I left the job after Waterloo panel closed,and Wimbledon took over in 1990. I've thought many times over the years,that maybe l should have stayed on the railway,but,oh well it's all water under the bridge now, l chose a different path and ended up living in the US !

Happy Xmas

 

[TomBoyd]

Hi one and all ! Just found this forum and have read all the signalling threads with much interest. Wow,how things have changed ! I'm a former BR Signalman (hate that title, Signaller - that's something else that's changed )

You hate the title Signaller? Why?

Interesting to hear that signalmen/women are recruited "off the street" these days,l guess it's a case of "needs must". They sure make people jump through a lot of hoops to get hired.

I, for one, am glad to see the beginning of the end of an internalised recruitment structure and nepotism, and I think the hoops are necessary to move beyond the old days and select the right person for the job.

I was recruited off the street, and I've worked with many, some superb, some adequate. I've worked with many established signallers, or from the industry, some great, some average.

I used to have an argument fairly routintely with an SSM I worked with about experience and competence. He placed experience above all else. My argument is that experience can be helpful, but it can also hinder. There are many external jobs, law enforcement, teaching, engineering, that give great experiences that can inform a signalling career at least as well, if not better, than a background on the railway.

I note some people talking about being hired on a contract. Is that normal now ?

It happens a lot. The needs of the railway have changed, and the uncertainty created by the migration to Route Operating Centres means shorter term contracts are probably the smartest move in the long run.

The shifts don't seem to have changed too much,although it used to be very common to have to work a double sunday (early,then back nights) and work nights saturday,back late turn sunday,and early turn monday. Does that still happen much ?

There are pretty strict rules in place now about shifts. Must be 12 hours between shifts, only 13 shifts in a row maximum, and many others. Rosters are now analysed for safety's sake for fatigue management, which I'm sure no one will really disagree with!

It seems that signalmen don't go out doing flagging jobs,on engineering works anymore ? Those jobs were usually good earners on weekends,especially for the relief guys.

Signallers are no longer trained for PTS routinely. From what I heard, maintaining the competencies was ruinously expensive for very little payback to the company.

A great deal has changed for sure. The money for the guys at the top end seems very good though. I left the job after Waterloo panel closed,and Wimbledon took over in 1990. I've thought many times over the years,that maybe l should have stayed on the railway,but,oh well it's all water under the bridge now, l chose a different path and ended up living in the US !

Happy Xmas

The money at every grade is absolutely superb for what we do! Not sure many would dispute that (though I have met one or two who do!)

 

[nom de guerre]

I'm a former BR Signalman (hate that title, Signaller - that's something else that's changed )

Some of us still answer the phone as 'Signalman'

I was a signalman on the south west div,as it was then, between 77-90. I worked Waterloo,both as a lever frame,and a panel. I was Rest day relief for Waterloo,Queens Rd, and Waterloo & City (both ends). I also was resident at London Bridge for a couple of years. I was also RDR for Guildford,Woking and Aldershot. Did several other boxes too...seems a lifetime ago now !

You must have known Trevor Maxted ...?

Guildford and Woking (ASC) are still going strong; Aldershot went a couple of years ago as part of the Alton Line resignalling (replaced by a new panel in Woking). I would love to have worked one of the SW division boxes of your era with miniature lever frames - sadly a bit before my time.

Interesting to hear that signalmen/women are recruited "off the street" these days,l guess it's a case of "needs must".

Surely that must have happened at least occasionally even in the '70s and '80s? IIRC the signalman involved in the Seer Green accident in the early '80s had been recruited 'off the street'. The accident report mentions that BR had been unable to attract any internal candidates for the job due to the low pay and lack of overtime potential.

The shifts don't seem to have changed too much,although it used to be very common to have to work a double sunday (early,then back nights) and work nights saturday,back late turn sunday,and early turn monday. Does that still happen much ?

No more 'doubling back' now, thankfully! The closest these days is probably a relief finishing a night turn on a Sunday morning and then being asked to work an early turn on the Monday. Of course they can refuse, but...

Did your shifts improve after the Hidden inquiry (into the Clapham Jn accident) was published?

It seems that signalmen don't go out doing flagging jobs,on engineering works anymore ? Those jobs were usually good earners on weekends,especially for the relief guys.

In my area, weekend handsignalling jobs are usually a nice bit of overtime for the MOMs.

A few old hands still retain their competencies, but latterly, new entrants have not been trained in PTS. Having said that, I think one of our Railchat brethren currently at signalling school recently posted that, for at least some trainees, this policy has now reversed! No doubt you were used to a seemingly endless succession of often-contradictory reorganisations during BR days; well, not much has changed

A great deal has changed for sure. The money for the guys at the top end seems very good though. I left the job after Waterloo panel closed,and Wimbledon took over in 1990.

As Tom says, all grades are well paid now. Without wishing to rub it in(!) signallers' pay has increased considerably in real terms since your era - probably second only to drivers (which is a much more competitive jobs market with relative freedom of movement between companies). A Grade 2 crossing keeper earns more than the average national salary if they work their booked Sundays; in fact a Grade 1 might, too (and neither would have to attend signalling school). IMO if you're a medium or high grade it's possible to live fairly comfortably in most areas of the country on 'just' the basic salary - hence the increase in interest from external applicants. And of course, there's generally plenty of overtime available for the 'grabbers'

Happy Xmas

Happy Xmas to you, too. I'm 'working' a 12hr night turn on the 25th - 200% pay plus a comp day; no trains. I don't usually do overtime, but...

 

[Llanigraham]

As Tom says, all grades are well paid now. Without wishing to rub it in(!) signallers' pay has increased considerably in real terms since your era - probably second only to drivers (which is a much more competitive jobs market with relative freedom of movement between companies). A Grade 2 crossing keeper earns more than the average national salary if they work their booked Sundays; in fact a Grade 1 might, too (and neither would have to attend signalling school). IMO if you're a medium or high grade it's possible to live fairly comfortably in most areas of the country on 'just' the basic salary - hence the increase in interest from external applicants. And of course, there's generally plenty of overtime available for the 'grabbers'

To correct that, Gr 1 Crossing Keepers can go to Signalling School, but it may be for a reduced period. Gr 2 Signallers do the full course!

 

[nom de guerre]

To correct that, Gr 1 Crossing Keepers can go to Signalling School, but it may be for a reduced period. Gr 2 Signallers do the full course!

Always?

I've personally met a G2 who hadn't been to school. Quite possibly the exception!

 

[Llanigraham]

If they are in a Gr 2 signal box and responsible for "block management" then they will go to Signalling School.

 

[Sunset route]

If they are in a Gr 2 signal box and responsible for "block management" then they will go to Signalling School.

We have grade 2 crossing keepers along the south coast whether they are required to sit through the whole signalling school or have reduced training to what is only required for a crossing keeper I do not know.

 

[TNbloke]

You hate the title Signaller? Why?

Thanks for your responses. Maybe "hate" is too strong a word,but l certainly dislike it,although l suppose it's very PC now,as no doubt there are a few more females working in boxes these days. Like many of the new buzz words/phrases,it was dreamt up by somebody with too much time on their hands. It's like "service delivery" "risk assessment" and many other unnecessary sayings that have crept into every day life. I suppose l'm just old school that doesn't like change just for the sake of it. If u like the word,that's fine,it's just my personal opinion.

I have no problem at all with people being recruited off the street. l'm sure some very good people have been hired. There was no need to do it years ago,as there were enough internal applicants for the positions,either from other boxes or more usually from platform staff looking to get into signalling. I don't know anybody personally that was taken off the street,that l can recall.

Good to hear that the long hours and double shifts have largely been done away with.

 

[TNbloke]

You must have known Trevor Maxted ...?

Yes l know Trevor very well,although l haven't spoken to him for many years,l believe he's still at Guildford,isn't he ? I know 2 of the other guys there as well.

Guildford and Woking (ASC) are still going strong; Aldershot went a couple of years ago as part of the Alton Line resignalling (replaced by a new panel in Woking). I would love to have worked one of the SW division boxes of your era with miniature lever frames - sadly a bit before my time.

Woking,as a lever frame,was a very good place to work, l liked it there a lot,same with Waterloo,l liked working the old lever frames,there was a lot more "skill" to it,if that's the right word



Surely that must have happened at least occasionally even in the '70s and '80s? IIRC the signalman involved in the Seer Green accident in the early '80s had been recruited 'off the street'. The accident report mentions that BR had been unable to attract any internal candidates for the job due to the low pay and lack of overtime potential.

l never knew of anybody recruited directly off the street,and l worked all of the boxes from Woking to Pompey,as well as the London ones that l mentioned previously. The only people that came off the street that l can recall were box boys. We had a box boy at Guildford by the name of Boxall,who u may know,l believe he's some type of manager in that area now.



No more 'doubling back' now, thankfully! The closest these days is probably a relief finishing a night turn on a Sunday morning and then being asked to work an early turn on the Monday. Of course they can refuse, but...

Did your shifts improve after the Hidden inquiry (into the Clapham Jn accident) was published?

I was working at London Bridge at that time,if l remember rightly,l was resident there,and had largely stopped doing much o/t. I would gobble it up when l was on the relief,as much as l could get,but l'd pretty much stopped at the time of the Clapham crash,so it didn't affect my shifts/hours at all. I really don't recall it affecting anybody else either,except maybe the S & T guys.




In my area, weekend handsignalling jobs are usually a nice bit of overtime for the MOMs.

A few old hands still retain their competencies, but latterly, new entrants have not been trained in PTS. Having said that, I think one of our Railchat brethren currently at signalling school recently posted that, for at least some trainees, this policy has now reversed! No doubt you were used to a seemingly endless succession of often-contradictory reorganisations during BR days; well, not much has changed

Signalling school sure has increased in length now, and residential too ? What a nightmare ! It used to be at Beckenham Junction,and l think it was about 3 weeks,possibly 4, and not residential of course.




As Tom says, all grades are well paid now. Without wishing to rub it in(!) signallers' pay has increased considerably in real terms since your era - probably second only to drivers (which is a much more competitive jobs market with relative freedom of movement between companies). A Grade 2 crossing keeper earns more than the average national salary if they work their booked Sundays; in fact a Grade 1 might, too (and neither would have to attend signalling school). IMO if you're a medium or high grade it's possible to live fairly comfortably in most areas of the country on 'just' the basic salary - hence the increase in interest from external applicants. And of course, there's generally plenty of overtime available for the 'grabbers'


Happy Xmas to you, too. I'm 'working' a 12hr night turn on the 25th - 200% pay plus a comp day; no trains. I don't usually do overtime, but... [/QUOTE]

Sweet ! How can u refuse

 

[TNbloke]

Always?

I've personally met a G2 who hadn't been to school. Quite possibly the exception!

Surely there can't be many crossing keepers left now,at least in the south west,is there ? Do panel boxes use them to monitor the X-ings ?

 

[nom de guerre]

Yes l know Trevor very well,although l haven't spoken to him for many years,l believe he's still at Guildford,isn't he ? I know 2 of the other guys there as well.

Trevor retired recently (last year, I think?) but is still photographing trains! Believe his partner in crime, John, has also finished now. Guildford had a nice SSI (NX) panel installed in the late '90s and is likely to survive for a few more years.

Woking,as a lever frame,was a very good place to work, l liked it there a lot,same with Waterloo,l liked working the old lever frames,there was a lot more "skill" to it,if that's the right word

How many panels did Waterloo have?

Trevor reckons miniature lever frames were the nicest signalling interface he ever worked. Alas there are only two left now - Liverpool Lime Street and Maidstone East (which is part NX too). The lovely old 'Submarine' box at Woking is used for stores now. I think it's listed?

l never knew of anybody recruited directly off the street,and l worked all of the boxes from Woking to Pompey,as well as the London ones that l mentioned previously. The only people that came off the street that l can recall were box boys. We had a box boy at Guildford by the name of Boxall,who u may know,l believe he's some type of manager in that area now.

Mr Boxall is now a LOM (Local Operations Manager) who at least two members of this forum will know very well

Signalling school sure has increased in length now, and residential too ? What a nightmare ! It used to be at Beckenham Junction,and l think it was about 3 weeks,possibly 4, and not residential of course.

One old hand I know trained in a portacabin outside Waterloo: liquid lunches, everything learned from a blackboard and passing Class 50s drowning out the trainer

Slightly different now!

 

[nom de guerre]

Surely there can't be many crossing keepers left now,at least in the south west,is there ? Do panel boxes use them to monitor the X-ings ?

AFAIA not many left on the SW now, but still a few on the SE: Stone, Charlton Lane, Chartham and Wye spring to mind. There are also a couple of boxes with manual gates on the Medway Valley line.

 

[83G/84D]

Surely there can't be many crossing keepers left now,at least in the south west,is there ? Do panel boxes use them to monitor the X-ings ?

The only one that springs to mind is Red Cow Crossing at Exeter St David's. The crossing keeper has no control over the barriers unlike some other crossing keepers however mainly supervises the pedestrians that when authorised can cross over when the barriers are lowered.

The Exeter crossing keeper is not a crossing keeper in the true sense but there is a crossing keeper / box at Puxton & Worle near Weston-Super-Mare.

 

[Llanigraham]

There is a Grade 1 crossing keeper on the Cambrian, and all he does is to check that the users of the UWC actually close the gates.

 

[TRain87]

Are there any relief signallers on the board that may be able to assist me? Just curious as to what happens over Xmas period - is it like a Sunday, where you're not scheduled to work but expected to cover if others book it off? Any help is much appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Sanatogen]

If it's your rest day or Sunday then you don't have to do it but anything else is fair game within rostering principles.

Most PSBs/ROCs work on a voluntary basis and normally have enough takers for it to be covered easily at Christmas.

 

[signallerscot]

A lot of people got a shock a couple of years ago when they needed the boxes round my way open throughout Christmas and Hogmanay for engineering trains for the first time in many years. Those whose shifts fell on it were out as normal and many of the guys were very unhappy about it. One even shut the box after what he thought was the last train and went home 7 hours early; it wasn't and he ended up disciplined for it.

 

[TNbloke]

There was only one panel at Waterloo,that mainly covered the station area,and went as far down as Vauxhall. (That's not me at the panel !)

Trevor retired recently (last year, I think?) but is still photographing trains! Believe his partner in crime, John, has also finished now. Guildford had a nice SSI (NX) panel installed in the late '90s and is likely to survive for a few more years.




How many panels did Waterloo have? Just one. Check out the pic attached.


Trevor reckons miniature lever frames were the nicest signalling interface he ever worked. Alas there are only two left now - Liverpool Lime Street and Maidstone East (which is part NX too). The lovely old 'Submarine' box at Woking is used for stores now. I think it's listed?

I think l'd agree with Trevor on that one.



Mr Boxall is now a LOM (Local Operations Manager) who at least two members of this forum will know very well




One old hand I know trained in a portacabin outside Waterloo: liquid lunches, everything learned from a blackboard and passing Class 50s drowning out the trainer

Slightly different now!

 

[TRain87]

As I'm just starting my career as a signaller, how worried should I be with the box closures? And what happens to the employees if there box does close, are they automatically offered a job in the ROC or out on your ear? According to a list I saw online (may be out of date) the boxes I'm due to work in (as a relief signaller) are all due to close in 2018.

Cheers