A few months of fare evasion on GTR

[Rr123]

I am back with an update hope everyone’s ready, as promised I wanted to follow through with the End Game result, felt like an Infinite War I thought I was definitely going to lose. Details shortly posted.

 

[Camsus]

I am back with an update hope everyone’s ready, as promised I wanted to follow through with the End Game result, felt like an Infinite War I thought I was definitely going to lose. Details shortly posted.

"Details shortly posted" as in hours or days?

 

[Rr123]

Hi to everyone, sorry for the extreme delay, life got busy after I manage to resolve my fare issues if you saw my previous post you will know the severity of the case. Not your normal single ticket fare evasion case. It was almost a life altering case were the prosecution was heavily against me. However I managed to resolve it using Manak solicitors. And settled just shy of a 3k bill of all fairs missed (no fines). You will fill out a sheet on excel and list the days you fare evaded, how much the original fare was (my case I put the cost with the rail card discount) how much you paid and difference left, I had 115 instances I could trace back. Thameslink then gave me a settlement to cover all instances of single journeys back at full price coming upto around 3k, no rail discount added so I guess that’s how they will settle everyone even for single fare evasion prosecutions. They do want to settle on more occasions but definitely worth going though a solicitors who knows the know how. I didn’t have any fines or fees just to pay back the missed ticket costs. But I definitely recommend acting fast do not ignore letters and just cooperate. This was with Thameslink and Manak have good links with rail companies.

For those with TFL prosecution cases which I understand is a much more heavier roll as they take it seriously, there is still light at the end of the tunnel. The reason why I took a while to respond as I just managed to help a friend settle their one and avoided court and prosecution. So the friends scenario was for a few months they was using a freedom pass and got caught, (they was waiting for them at the barrier it was a planned attack) the freedom pass showed 72 instances of being used over the course of 3 months with regular pattern of usage; TfL sent them a whole document with cctv images and number of times and where it was used. We turned to Reeds solicitors who are based in Luton. Initially my friend ignored all letters and was given a court date. But once we got in contact with Reeds they sent a letter to TfL to settle the case. Now the main factors here will be your character references to state this was out of character, problems you had in your life that affected your mental thinking, your career ambitions, if your medical nurse related this is a strong point as they do not want to ruin someone’s career, I’m sure other professions will also make a strong case. If you work in care or any medical place, a fare evasion prosecution from TFL could ruin your enhanced dbs check and so make you jobless; this is all counted for. In the end TFL settled for just shy of £600 no other fines or fees other than reeds solicitors costs around another £600 but all in all if your in this situation you need to sort it out. Any questions please message ask I’ll try help. I still think it’s ridiculous they prosecute like this for something so low level.

Kind regards,

Captain

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi to everyone, sorry for the extreme delay, life got busy after I manage to resolve my fare issues if you saw my previous post you will know the severity of the case. Not your normal single ticket fare evasion case. It was almost a life altering case were the prosecution was heavily against me. However I managed to resolve it using Manak solicitors. And settled just shy of a 3k bill of all fairs missed (no fines). You will fill out a sheet on excel and list the days you fare evaded, how much the original fare was (my case I put the cost with the rail card discount) how much you paid and difference left, I had 115 instances I could trace back. Thameslink then gave me a settlement to cover all instances of single journeys back at full price coming upto around 3k, no rail discount added so I guess that’s how they will settle everyone even for single fare evasion prosecutions. They do want to settle on more occasions but definitely worth going though a solicitors who knows the know how. I didn’t have any fines or fees just to pay back the missed ticket costs. But I definitely recommend acting fast do not ignore letters and just cooperate. This was with Thameslink and Manak have good links with rail companies.

For those with TFL prosecution cases which I understand is a much more heavier roll as they take it seriously, there is still light at the end of the tunnel. The reason why I took a while to respond as I just managed to help a friend settle their one and avoided court and prosecution. So the friends scenario was for a few months they was using a freedom pass and got caught, (they was waiting for them at the barrier it was a planned attack) the freedom pass showed 72 instances of being used over the course of 3 months with regular pattern of usage; TfL sent them a whole document with cctv images and number of times and where it was used. We turned to Reeds solicitors who are based in Luton. Initially my friend ignored all letters and was given a court date. But once we got in contact with Reeds they sent a letter to TfL to settle the case. Now the main factors here will be your character references to state this was out of character, problems you had in your life that affected your mental thinking, your career ambitions, if your medical nurse related this is a strong point as they do not want to ruin someone’s career, I’m sure other professions will also make a strong case. If you work in care or any medical place, a fare evasion prosecution from TFL could ruin your enhanced dbs check and so make you jobless; this is all counted for. In the end TFL settled for just shy of £600 no other fines or fees other than reeds solicitors costs around another £600 but all in all if your in this situation you need to sort it out. Any questions please message ask I’ll try help. I still think it’s ridiculous they prosecute like this for something so low level.

Kind regards,

Captain

I think that is a v informative post for ppl facing this sort of scenario.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for updating us, this is very useful.

I’ve moved your post to the main thread about your case to keep everything together and make it easier to understand the case from start to end.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Hi to everyone, sorry for the extreme delay, life got busy after I manage to resolve my fare issues if you saw my previous post you will know the severity of the case. Not your normal single ticket fare evasion case. It was almost a life altering case were the prosecution was heavily against me. However I managed to resolve it using Manak solicitors. And settled just shy of a 3k bill of all fairs missed (no fines). You will fill out a sheet on excel and list the days you fare evaded, how much the original fare was (my case I put the cost with the rail card discount) how much you paid and difference left, I had 115 instances I could trace back. Thameslink then gave me a settlement to cover all instances of single journeys back at full price coming upto around 3k, no rail discount added so I guess that’s how they will settle everyone even for single fare evasion prosecutions. They do want to settle on more occasions but definitely worth going though a solicitors who knows the know how. I didn’t have any fines or fees just to pay back the missed ticket costs. But I definitely recommend acting fast do not ignore letters and just cooperate. This was with Thameslink and Manak have good links with rail companies.

For those with TFL prosecution cases which I understand is a much more heavier roll as they take it seriously, there is still light at the end of the tunnel. The reason why I took a while to respond as I just managed to help a friend settle their one and avoided court and prosecution. So the friends scenario was for a few months they was using a freedom pass and got caught, (they was waiting for them at the barrier it was a planned attack) the freedom pass showed 72 instances of being used over the course of 3 months with regular pattern of usage; TfL sent them a whole document with cctv images and number of times and where it was used. We turned to Reeds solicitors who are based in Luton. Initially my friend ignored all letters and was given a court date. But once we got in contact with Reeds they sent a letter to TfL to settle the case. Now the main factors here will be your character references to state this was out of character, problems you had in your life that affected your mental thinking, your career ambitions, if your medical nurse related this is a strong point as they do not want to ruin someone’s career, I’m sure other professions will also make a strong case. If you work in care or any medical place, a fare evasion prosecution from TFL could ruin your enhanced dbs check and so make you jobless; this is all counted for. In the end TFL settled for just shy of £600 no other fines or fees other than reeds solicitors costs around another £600 but all in all if your in this situation you need to sort it out. Any questions please message ask I’ll try help. I still think it’s ridiculous they prosecute like this for something so low level.

Kind regards,

Captain

I'm not sure that a hundred or more cases of fare evasion can be called "low level", compared with some much much smaller incidents (including ones which seem to be genuinely errors rather than deliberate evasion) that turn up on this forum all the time, and which do lead to prosecution. From the railway's point of view, of course, it's a hundred instances of something akin to theft.

In your terms, what amount of taking something without paying for it would count as going beyond "low level"?

 

[Titfield]

I have to say that I am somewhat astonished that the TOCs or TfL will settle for the fares avoided (albeit at the full rate without any applicable discount) and not charge some form of administration fee on top. I am even more astonished that with such fare evasion that they havent chosen to go to court to make an example of this person.

One wonders where the deterrent effect is in this sanction other than the full fare being charged without any form of applicable discount.

 

[MotCO]

. I am even more astonished that with such fare evasion that they havent chosen to go to court to make an example of this person.

Because the TOC keep more of the proceeds?

 

[Deafdoggie]

I have to say that I am somewhat astonished that the TOCs or TfL will settle for the fares avoided (albeit at the full rate without any applicable discount) and not charge some form of administration fee on top. I am even more astonished that with such fare evasion that they havent chosen to go to court to make an example of this person.

One wonders where the deterrent effect is in this sanction other than the full fare being charged without any form of applicable discount.

They virtually always settle for less, and faster, when a solicitor is involved.

 

[jon0844]

They probably don't have time for court either given how widespread this problem is. I can't even begin to imagine how many people are being caught like this every day across the GTR network, and indeed nationally.

 

[island]

I have to say that I am somewhat astonished that the TOCs or TfL will settle for the fares avoided (albeit at the full rate without any applicable discount) and not charge some form of administration fee on top. I am even more astonished that with such fare evasion that they havent chosen to go to court to make an example of this person.

One wonders where the deterrent effect is in this sanction other than the full fare being charged without any form of applicable discount.

I haven't seen TfL settle for fares avoided very often, but the TOCs receive the entire amount of a settlement which is more than they'd get if the case went to court. They don't really care about "making examples" of people.

 

[Titfield]

I haven't seen TfL settle for fares avoided very often, but the TOCs receive the entire amount of a settlement which is more than they'd get if the case went to court. They don't really care about "making examples" of people.

Well I get that (and it is completely understandable) but we do see newspaper reports of court proceedings so some transgressors must get taken to court.

 

[FenMan]

Perhaps the DfT has made it clear to the TOCs that maximising revenue is the top priority?

 

[island]

Well I get that (and it is completely understandable) but we do see newspaper reports of court proceedings so some transgressors must get taken to court.

Indeed, hundreds a week do, when they fail or refuse to engage with the process and instead stick the head in the sand hoping it'll go away.

 

[Rr123]

I have to say that I am somewhat astonished that the TOCs or TfL will settle for the fares avoided (albeit at the full rate without any applicable discount) and not charge some form of administration fee on top. I am even more astonished that with such fare evasion that they havent chosen to go to court to make an example of this person.

One wonders where the deterrent effect is in this sanction other than the full fare being charged without any form of applicable discount.

I'm not sure that a hundred or more cases of fare evasion can be called "low level", compared with some much much smaller incidents (including ones which seem to be genuinely errors rather than deliberate evasion) that turn up on this forum all the time, and which do lead to prosecution. From the railway's point of view, of course, it's a hundred instances of something akin to theft.

In your terms, what amount of taking something without paying for it would count as going beyond "low level"?

Your not taking just taking something your still paying something, and I would say it’s low level compared to other crimes also considering rail bosses last year took over £500million in bonuses.

Because the TOC keep more of the proceeds?

Yeah they definitely keep a lot more rather going court

Indeed, hundreds a week do, when they fail or refuse to engage with the process and instead stick the head in the sand hoping it'll go away.

This 95% of most case scenarios, the ones that don’t have the money to pay quickly will just have to take the prosecution on the chin however if you follow the process, cooperate from the get go and your good to pay they’ll more than always settle.

 

[jon0844]

Your not taking just taking something your still paying something, and I would say it’s low level compared to other crimes also considering rail bosses last year took over £500million in bonuses.

Given your attitude to this in previous posts also, I would strongly suggest that despite your opinions you don't commit any more offences as they may well make an example of you next time (or any other TOC) now you're on their radar.

It does sound like you feel aggrieved and somehow don't see that what you did wrong was a big deal, which makes me think you'll maybe do it again (or try and find some other 'clever' way to save money).

 

[antharro]

Your not taking just taking something your still paying something, and I would say it’s low level compared to other crimes also considering rail bosses last year took over £500million in bonuses.

Ok, so if you run a shop, I'll come in, take an item worth £10.00 and I'll leave £2 on the counter for you. That's ok, because I'm still paying something, right? Good.

Arguments about however much rail bosses took home are *utterly* irrelevant. Honestly you sound mad that you got caught out because you don't really think you did something that was all that seriously wrong, and are now trying a "hey but look they're committing a much larger crime". Despite saying that

I do know the severity of this action, hard times just push us to do things we shouldn’t. I expect no sympathy but some advice would be great.

I do 100% echo Jon's advice - you are on the radar now, keep your head down and pay your fares. The TOCs won't be as inclined to settle next time.

 

[furlong]

I haven't seen TfL settle for fares avoided very often, but the TOCs receive the entire amount of a settlement which is more than they'd get if the case went to court. They don't really care about "making examples" of people.

The way I see things, when it comes to considering settlements, whereas TOCs tend to focus primarily on the financial outcome, TfL doesn't. It appears more interested in the justice perspective (or the media perspective if you're cynical) - where the public interest lies - and I think it leans away from pursuing cases where there's mitigation that, in court, might favour a discharge. (I think TfL doesn't want to be made to look either weak or cruel.)

 

[island]

I would say it’s low level compared to other crimes also considering rail bosses last year took over £500million in bonuses.

Source, please.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Regardless how accurate that figure is, it is always true that "two wrongs don't make a right".

If the senior management of Train Operating Companies recieve large bonuses despite the poor performance of the companies they run, that doesn't mean that's it's right to evade your train fare. The two are not connected.

 

[yorkie]

This forum section isn't for shop analogies/comparisons.

Just a reminder that for those both seeking advice, as well as those replying to such threads, the guidelines for posting in this section should be adhered to.

 

[Rr123]

As the previous thread is locked I just had to post a few replies here, ofc I understand the situation and would never do it again, and have paid everything, but understand it was not out of bad character I am not proud of anything, everyone tries to find ways they can save and cut corners in this country let’s all be honest, EVERYONE even the highest of earnest but of course it doesn’t justify it, but am glad I have learnt from the lesson and can advise others to not do the same.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

everyone tries to find ways they can save and cut corners in this country let’s all be honest, EVERYONE even the highest of earnest

The way to avoid trouble is to find legal ways of saving money. Fare dodging isn’t legal.

I know you didn’t really want to join us, but now you’re here, keep an eye on the Fares Advice & Policy forum- that can be good for bringing up legitimate ways to save on your train fare.