A New Series of "Fare Dodgers At War With the Law..."

[Blinkbonny]

Starts tonight on Channel 5. 9.00pm

5

www.channel5.com

Transport for London investigators go on the trail of a fare dodger they suspect has avoided paying for more than 200 journeys. And officers board Hounslow trains - a hot spot for fare evasion.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In tonight's episode (Series 2 Episode 1). Transport for London investigators go on the trail of a fare dodger they suspect has avoided paying for hundreds of journeys (allegedly they'd been using a card registered to a female relative). Also, TfL officers stake out Hounslow station, said to be a hot spot for fare evasion.

 

[SouthernOne]

The new series is about south Western Railway Revenue team & Transport for London! There is a trailer for it on TikTok

 

[Darandio]

The new series is about south Western Railways Revenue team! Not transport for London! There is a trailer for it on TikTok. https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNdrcSTQh/

Then you might want to let Channel 5 know!

 

[ainsworth74]

I wonder if they'll talk about all those dodgy prosecutions? Or maybe that wouldn't quite strike the tone they're after?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Then you might want to let Channel 5 know!

And for that matter, the TV listings magazines.

 

[SouthernOne]

I wonder if they'll talk about all those dodgy prosecutions? Or maybe that wouldn't quite strike the tone they're after?

I know they followed the Waterloo, Wimbledon, Bournemouth and Southampton teams around the Network. They involved the fraud team and the British transport police. They follow a new recruit through their training. They did filming at Guildford, Southampton, Woking, Clapham Junction, Weybridge and Byfleet and Newhall that I saw.

 

[Vexed]

I think episode 1 is TfL and episode 2 next week is SWR.

 

[SouthernOne]

I think episode 1 is TfL and episode 2 next week is SWR.

 

[Vexed]

Channel 5's own website...

5

www.channel5.com

Transport for London investigators go on the trail of a fare dodger they suspect has avoided paying for more than 200 journeys. And officers board Hounslow trains - a hot spot for fare evasion.

We'll have to see if Hounslow means LU or SWR.

I only said my earlier comment as next week's programme description mentions SWR by name, which this week's doesn't.

 

[Mojo]

Maybe it includes both. The video trailer posted above includes both LU and SWR staff.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Maybe it includes both. The video trailer posted above includes both LU and SWR staff.

It does include both TfL and SWR.

 

[SouthernOne]

It certainly showcasing the 3 most prolific SWR Revenue staff at Waterloo!

 

[transportphoto]

It’s a frustrating watch.

Realistically we realise how powerless RPOs are. Barge through a gateline, make threats, push a colleague on train - all that happens is he’s told to leave. Why are SWR not pushing for Police to deal with the aggression, and for the offences (e.g. misuse of gateline) to be prosecuted?

The LUL case at Preston Road - Words to the effect of: “If you’re not going to answer our questions, I’ll wait here all day and call the police”. What happened to “you do not have to say anything”? The male is only cautioned once downstairs in the waiting room, and having been bullied into giving up the high value pass.

 

[MrJeeves]

It’s a frustrating watch.

Realistically we realise how powerless RPOs are. Barge through a gateline, make threats, push a colleague on train - all that happens is he’s told to leave. Why are SWR not pushing for Police to deal with the aggression, and for the offences (e.g. misuse of gateline) to be prosecuted?

The LUL case at Preston Road - Words to the effect of: “If you’re not going to answer our questions, I’ll wait here all day and call the police”. What happened to “you do not have to say anything”? The male is only cautioned once downstairs in the waiting room, and having been bullied into giving up the high value pass.

I greatly enjoyed the part where the RPI told someone they could tap back out and have their fare refunded.

And the bit where they demanded ID and threatened to call the police if it wasn't provided.

Surely you'd have thought they'd try and behave particularly "legitimately" for the cameras, and not have evidence of their blatant lies and... potentially non-compliant behaviour... on camera? Broadcast to the whole country?

 

[Peter Sarf]

I greatly enjoyed the part where the RPI told someone they could tap back out and have their fare refunded.

And the bit where they demanded ID and threatened to call the police if it wasn't provided.

Surely you'd have thought they'd try and behave particularly "legitimately" for the cameras, and not have evidence of their blatant lies and... potentially non-compliant behaviour... on camera? Broadcast to the whole country?

My bold. I remember going to East Croydon specifically to collect my refund on my Oyster Card. I touched in, turned round and touched straight back out - cost me about £5. That was a few years ago so has that quirk been corrected or was the "passenger" using a bank card (if that is different) ?.

EDIT - following added :-

Otherwise, for me, it was a bit of a slow story.

I did not watch all of it because there was a heated side debate so I could not tell what was going on.

Someone else in the room was adamant that the people wearing jackets with "revenue" on them were HM government employees. It got into a heated argument - not sure why it was relevant. I grasped that the basis for the argument on one side was "HM Revenue and Customs" has the same word "revenue" in it - but is that a relevant connection ?. I was more interested in the actual details of the offences.

A question for someone else. How easy is it for TfL to take an over 60s card away from the rightful user. My reply was it is maybe not confiscated but just disabled, so no need for the revenue team to get their hands on the misused card. I pondered that it not a big legal deal as I can guess that it is in the terms and conditions that TfL reserve the right to take away the right of use, or something along those lines. Or am I wrong and it takes a court case to remove the card from the rightful user so it has to be proved that they let others use it ?. I could see the TfL team were trying to prise some things out of the gent.

I was rather struck with how "entitled" the gate pusher at Waterloo was !.

Perhaps driving in my personal car would be a more pleasant way to travel !.

 

[MrJeeves]

I remember going to East Croydon specifically to collect my refund on my Oyster Card. I touched in, turned round and touched straight back out - cost me about £5. That was a few years ago so has that quirk been corrected or was the "passenger" using a bank card (if that is different) ?.

The TfL backoffice will arbitrarily decide whether or not to auto-refund a same-station exit on contactless, but it's certainly not always going to.

It'll take into account travel history, previous "reliability" of your touches and probably other factors too to decide whether your same-station exit was likely to be legitimate or possible fare evasion.

As far as I understand, Oyster will never auto-refund a same-station exit charge.

 

[transportphoto]

I greatly enjoyed the part where the RPI told someone they could tap back out and have their fare refunded.

Well, not entirely wrong. I’m not really sure how the whole debate came about though - was the trains first stop outside the zones? TfL “aim to automatically refund you for a same station exit if you have not had one in the last 7 days.” (Source: https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/refunds-and-replacements/touched-in-and-out-at-same-station)

And the bit where they demanded ID and threatened to call the police if it wasn't provided.

Cringeworthy. No legal power to demand ID - typically an individual is only required to verbally give their name and address. There’s an added requirement for date of birth if being requested in line with the Penalty Fare Regulations.

Naturally, it’s a further offence to give incorrect details… but you don’t need to give any ID.

For those who know what good looks like, SWR and LUL’s approaches tonight do not paint the best picture.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The TfL backoffice will arbitrarily decide whether or not to auto-refund a same-station exit on contactless, but it's certainly not always going to.

It'll take into account travel history, previous "reliability" of your touches and probably other factors too to decide whether your same-station exit was likely to be legitimate or possible fare evasion.

As far as I understand, Oyster will never auto-refund a same-station exit charge.

Thanks. I only did it as I had to nominate a station to collect my refund and I was told I had a week to do it in and that week was nearly up !.

What is the purpose of charging for a station entry and immediate exit ?.

It must have been quite a while ago as I now have an over 60s card !.
(which I keep as safe as my bank cards).

(I have added some extra questions to my previous post.)

 

[Ashley Hill]

I’ve not seen this yet but it sounds cringeworthy,a typical C5 sensationalist affair,all rant and no result. I’ll watch it on catch up later and give judgment.

 

[BJames]

Thanks. I only did it as I had to nominate a station to collect my refund and I was told I had a week to do it in and that week was nearly up !.

What is the purpose of charging for a station entry and immediate exit ?.

It must have been quite a while ago as I now have an over 60s card !.
(which I keep as safe as my bank cards).

(I have added some extra questions to my previous post.)

It is to do with fare evasion - is it to do with the fact that if you tapped in and straight back out, you could then basically just use this to get through the gateline free of charge if your destination station is unbarriered? Or that you could theoretically do a similar trick at the destination station if barriered?

Well, not entirely wrong. I’m not really sure how the whole debate came about though - was the trains first stop outside the zones? TfL “aim to automatically refund you for a same station exit if you have not had one in the last 7 days.” (Source: https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/refunds-and-replacements/touched-in-and-out-at-same-station)



Cringeworthy. No legal power to demand ID - typically an individual is only required to verbally give their name and address. There’s an added requirement for date of birth if being requested in line with the Penalty Fare Regulations.

Naturally, it’s a further offence to give incorrect details… but you don’t need to give any ID.

For those who know what good looks like, SWR and LUL’s approaches tonight do not paint the best picture.

The debate seemed to come as a result of the fact that the traveller was going to Farnborough I believe but had tapped in, although I too missed how they worked out he was going to Farnborough, unless they just straight up asked him?

 

[Peter Sarf]

It is to do with fare evasion - is it to do with the fact that if you tapped in and straight back out, you could then basically just use this to get through the gateline free of charge if your destination station is unbarriered? Or that you could theoretically do a similar trick at the destination station if barriered?


The debate seemed to come as a result of the fact that the traveller was going to Farnborough I believe but had tapped in, although I too missed how they worked out he was going to Farnborough, unless they just straight up asked him?

Passenger probably asked - "is this train going to Farnborough" !.

 

[BJames]

Passenger probably asked - "is this train going to Farnborough" !.

True ! I kind of assumed he'd not started the interaction with the staff member for some reason.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It is to do with fare evasion - is it to do with the fact that if you tapped in and straight back out, you could then basically just use this to get through the gateline free of charge if your destination station is unbarriered? Or that you could theoretically do a similar trick at the destination station if barriered?

I suppose that means the barriers do not distinguish between a touch + walk through versus a touch but no walk through ?.
As in the system thinks I have touched in, entered, touched out but got on a train to a barrier-less station out in the sticks.

 

[Peter Sarf]

True ! I kind of assumed he'd not started the interaction with the staff member for some reason.

Thinking a bit more. The programme was showing a 159 at the same time or soon after. That made me think it was a long distance train, most of which do not stop at Clapham Junction etc. But that was probably just a coincidence. The passenger might have been going through a barrier for a platform with a long distance train at it, although I think platform 2 was mentioned ?.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Thinking a bit more. The programme was showing a 159 at the same time or soon after. That made me think it was a long distance train, most of which do not stop at Clapham Junction etc. But that was probably just a coincidence. The passenger might have been going through a barrier for a platform with a long distance train at it, although I think platform 2 was mentioned ?.

The footage is not always accurate. During the segment on Hounslow services it showed a shot of a Freightliner 66 and 08 through the train window. Most probably taken at Redbridge.

 

[Harpo]

And the bit where they demanded ID and threatened to call the police if it wasn't provided.

Surprising that the TOC has allowed it to end up on the record. I wonder if that will prove to be a costly mistake?

 

[75A]

I thoroughly enjoyed the programme, it reminded me why I retired to the Irish countryside.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Not overly impressed by it. At least there was a couple of results but the usual C5 commentary and incidental music and summaries after the advert grate somewhat.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Not overly impressed by it. At least there was a couple of results but the usual C5 commentary and incidental music and summaries after the advert grate somewhat.

My bold. This has driven me away from the Yesterday Channel. They spend more time telling you what the end will be than actually showing you the end. I end up not knowing if I have seen the end with ten minutes of adverts to go before the time slot ends. i have been switching off more and more often half way through such programmes ordeals.