A real case for electrification of Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury line?

[Kite159]

First of all, during my time in the West Midlands, I have never, ever recalled any diesel trains calling at Dudley Port. It has since 1988 at least, only had the New Street - Wolverhampton local all stations calling there every 30 minutes (60 minutes on Sundays). However, that may change when Midland Metro uses the former South Staffs line that runs below.

Regarding Shrewsbury line, being as I was the first to suggest it in this thread, I was approaching this from the angle that should diesel engines for public transport be banned from enclosed stations and enshrined in international law, curtailing Shrewsbury services to Wolverhampton would be the only reasonable option, with other trains and also the London InterCity running to Shrewsbury every 60 minutes to compensate.

Alternatively, a mad suggestion for the Wales services would be for the (southbound) train to route into Oxley Depot with an electric loco coupling to it to haul the remainder of the journey to Birmingham. Rather difficult as there is not really any run round facilities at the Birmingham end, therefore more chances of Elvis being found alive and well having spend all those years hiding in the broom cupboard at Prestwick Airport.

Thinking about it further, smoking in the workplace and enclosed spaces was banned first in Scotland in 2006, with the next logical step for improving air quality would be banning diesel engines from enclosed spaces. After all, the use of white phosphor is banned and is enshrined in international law, with the only sovereign state to have used it in recent years was the Israeli Government back in 2010 when they attacked the Turkish aid ship Mavi Marmara on its way to the West Bank, contravening international law.

On a final note, it was in the news a few years ago that a young child's parents in London are (or already have) took the government to court as the child died from a respiratory infection (or something similar) a few years ago when the most likely cause was the child constantly breathing in the exhaust waste from the engines of the traffic that is using the North Circular Road. This did make me think that regarding the banning of diesel engines in enclosed spaces will eventually become enshrined in international law.

There used to be a couple random DMU services calling at all the stations on that line on Sunday mornings

 

[adrock1976]

There used to be a couple random DMU services calling at all the stations on that line on Sunday mornings

Thanks for that.

I can remember that the only intermediate station to receive a Sunday service was Sandwell & Dudley, due to it being designed for InterCity trains. There was no local all stations service for a long time, but with the switching of the Stourbridge trains to Snow Hill in 1995, Sunday services may have began around then (my memory may be slightly hazy as it was a long time ago).

 

[40129]

IIRC pre-Chase Line electrification at least the first Wolverhampton-New Street local service on Sundays was diesel (cl-170)

Also pre-COVID there was a New Street-Shrewsbury peak hour train that called at Dudley Port (I think it was that train's 1st stop ex-New Street)

 

[Wolfie]

First of all, during my time in the West Midlands, I have never, ever recalled any diesel trains calling at Dudley Port. It has since 1988 at least, only had the New Street - Wolverhampton local all stations calling there every 30 minutes (60 minutes on Sundays). However, that may change when Midland Metro uses the former South Staffs line that runs below.

Regarding Shrewsbury line, being as I was the first to suggest it in this thread, I was approaching this from the angle that should diesel engines for public transport be banned from enclosed stations and enshrined in international law, curtailing Shrewsbury services to Wolverhampton would be the only reasonable option, with other trains and also the London InterCity running to Shrewsbury every 60 minutes to compensate.

Alternatively, a mad suggestion for the Wales services would be for the (southbound) train to route into Oxley Depot with an electric loco coupling to it to haul the remainder of the journey to Birmingham. Rather difficult as there is not really any run round facilities at the Birmingham end, therefore more chances of Elvis being found alive and well having spend all those years hiding in the broom cupboard at Prestwick Airport.

Thinking about it further, smoking in the workplace and enclosed spaces was banned first in Scotland in 2006, with the next logical step for improving air quality would be banning diesel engines from enclosed spaces. After all, the use of white phosphor is banned and is enshrined in international law, with the only sovereign state to have used it in recent years was the Israeli Government back in 2010 when they attacked the Turkish aid ship Mavi Marmara on its way to the West Bank, contravening international law.

On a final note, it was in the news a few years ago that a young child's parents in London are (or already have) took the government to court as the child died from a respiratory infection (or something similar) a few years ago when the most likely cause was the child constantly breathing in the exhaust waste from the engines of the traffic that is using the North Circular Road. This did make me think that regarding the banning of diesel engines in enclosed spaces will eventually become enshrined in international law.

Re your last para, the mother continues to campaign on the issue. Her latest article from the Evening Standard, discussing pollution inequality, is below;

Rosamund Kissi-Debrah: ‘We need to confront the issue of inequality and air pollution’

Rosamund Kissi-Debrah fought for years to establish the cause of her daughter’s death. She tells Nicola Slawson why the impact of London’s dirty air is not equal

www.standard.co.uk

 

[tomuk]

Thanks for that.

I can remember that the only intermediate station to receive a Sunday service was Sandwell & Dudley, due to it being designed for InterCity trains. There was no local all stations service for a long time, but with the switching of the Stourbridge trains to Snow Hill in 1995, Sunday services may have began around then (my memory may be slightly hazy as it was a long time ago).

The first two morning M-F (1st on Sat) departures from Shrewsbury call at all stations between Wolverhampton to New Street and the peak hour 1746 off New Street stops at Coseley (I mistook it for Dudley Port).
Also not forgetting that all the TfW services stop at Smethwick Galton Bridge and half (when it is 2tph) the West Midlands Railway services stop at Sandwell and Dudley.

Re your last para, the mother continues to campaign on the issue. Her latest article from the Evening Standard, discussing pollution inequality, is below;

Rosamund Kissi-Debrah: ‘We need to confront the issue of inequality and air pollution’

Rosamund Kissi-Debrah fought for years to establish the cause of her daughter’s death. She tells Nicola Slawson why the impact of London’s dirty air is not equal

www.standard.co.uk

The government weren't taken to court it was an inquest by a coroner into the child's death. The young girl had severe lung disease and the corner found that the high pollution near her home was a factor. The finding has no binding effect on other courts or the government.
Anyhow as the services will be run by 196/197s in the future the Nox emissions will be 20x less then the 158s and substantially less then the 170s. Are emissions at New Street above guidelines anyway?

 

[option]

It wouldn't just be TfW saying no if you cutback the welsh services at Wolverhampton there would be an public outcry across Shropshire, Mid and North Wales.

Also for a bit if context

The Chase Line was electrified for over £110m (one figure mentioned closer to £200m).

The stations on the Chase line had in total 875 thousand passengers in 18/19

The stations on the SHR-WLV line had in total 4.8 million passengers in 18/19 (including Shrewsbury)

That's over four and a half times more passengers if the line had been electrified instead of the Chase Line.

There are nearly 2 million passengers using the telford stations alone (WLN OKN TFC)

There were major issues with unknown mine shafts when doing the Chase Line electrification, which pushed the cost up.
As noted on Wikipedia, other works were done at the same time;

Chase Line - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Walsall to Rugeley Trent Valley is ~15miles, & RGL is the terminating point for the services on the line, so it was essentially infill. One franchise operator, & doesn't require much stock, so easy to change over to EMUs.


Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury is 30miles, & the only services that terminate there are the WMR ones from Birmingham, at most 2tph.

As a comparison, Stourbridge-Dorridge is ~23miles, & has a lot more trains, vast majority from one operator. It's also nearly all in urban areas.
So the Snow Hill lines make much more sense to be done first.


Two ways I could see WLV-SHR being done;
as part of a major service increase on the line from Birmingham
if/when the Welsh Marches line is electrified

 

[Meole]

is there evidence that Welsh traffic makes use of the through airport link at BIA ?

 

[Wolfie]

The first two morning M-F (1st on Sat) departures from Shrewsbury call at all stations between Wolverhampton to New Street and the peak hour 1746 off New Street stops at Coseley (I mistook it for Dudley Port).
Also not forgetting that all the TfW services stop at Smethwick Galton Bridge and half (when it is 2tph) the West Midlands Railway services stop at Sandwell and Dudley.

The government weren't taken to court it was an inquest by a coroner into the child's death. The young girl had severe lung disease and the corner found that the high pollution near her home was a factor. The finding has no binding effect on other courts or the government.
Anyhow as the services will be run by 196/197s in the future the Nox emissions will be 20x less then the 158s and substantially less then the 170s. Are emissions at New Street above guidelines anyway?

HMG has been taken to Court and lost in both the domestic and European Courts.

 

[geordieblue]

is there evidence that Welsh traffic makes use of the through airport link at BIA ?

IIRC the extension to the airport was more to prevent the service terminating at New Street, which was putting strain on an already busy station. Not sure if anyone actually uses it to fly though.

 

[Wolfie]

IIRC the extension to the airport was more to prevent the service terminating at New Street, which was putting strain on an already busy station. Not sure if anyone actually uses it to fly though.

I've certainly seen seat reservations from Brum International to Welsh stations and people with cases occupying those seats. Anecdotal not qualitative or numerative data though.

 

[cle]

I've certainly seen seat reservations from Brum International to Welsh stations and people with cases occupying those seats. Anecdotal not qualitative or numerative data though.

A nicer/easier place to connect to London than New St, especially as Wolves is just 1tph.

In addition to 2tph, there are aspirations for an hourly London service in future. You might send through EMU stoppers too/instead.

Of course the Snow Hill lines desperately need wiring and upgrading - there is a lot of potential. But they are more complex in terms of branching on the eastern side (and low frequency) - plus the city centre piece and closures. And what it might mean for the future Moor St/Andy St services and even Chiltern - or the Leamington-Didcot gap it would painfully illustrate. Plus to Coventry.

Wolves to Shrewsbury is more straight-forward and self-contained in that regard, super linear.

 

[The Planner]

A nicer/easier place to connect to London than New St, especially as Wolves is just 1tph.

In addition to 2tph, there are aspirations for an hourly London service in future. You might send through EMU stoppers too/instead.

Of course the Snow Hill lines desperately need wiring and upgrading - there is a lot of potential. But they are more complex in terms of branching on the eastern side (and low frequency) - plus the city centre piece and closures. And what it might mean for the future Moor St/Andy St services and even Chiltern - or the Leamington-Didcot gap it would painfully illustrate. Plus to Coventry.

Wolves to Shrewsbury is more straight-forward and self-contained in that regard, super linear.

It could be the easiest job in the world, but if the numbers don't stack up it won't happen. It is further down the list than others in the West Mids.

 

[BrianW]

This thread started in March with reference to 'local MP', and a 'list' for improvements, in this case electrification. In the end it will be political. Another thread related to the new station (or is it a Beeching -reversal'?) at Reston, #49 on a list of 50!

So, its a professional review of improvement opportunities (a rolling programme?), with stock and signalling etc implications or
an assessment of majorities in marginal constituencies.

And as regards international law, courts, derogations, etc I hold on to the naive hope that 'the right thing will be done' and soon regarding the diesel-fumed hellhole of Birmingham.

 

[Ken H]

This thread started in March with reference to 'local MP', and a 'list' for improvements, in this case electrification. In the end it will be political. Another thread related to the new station (or is it a Beeching -reversal'?) at Reston, #49 on a list of 50!

So, its a professional review of improvement opportunities (a rolling programme?), with stock and signalling etc implications or
an assessment of majorities in marginal constituencies.

And as regards international law, courts, derogations, etc I hold on to the naive hope that 'the right thing will be done' and soon regarding the diesel-fumed hellhole of Birmingham.

replacing the voyagers with bimodes is the quickest way to do that. But it is loads better than when clapped out 1st generation DMU's, some 8 car, were operating the x-city line.

 

[FLIRTfan18]

I've certainly seen seat reservations from Brum International to Welsh stations and people with cases occupying those seats. Anecdotal not qualitative or numerative data though.

I see a lot more people heading into Birmingham with suitcases on TFW services than I do on the WMR ones from Shrewsbury.

 

[Wolfie]

I see a lot more people heading into Birmingham with suitcases on TFW services than I do on the WMR ones from Shrewsbury.

True enough

 

[Rhydgaled]

The line is due to have a complete overhaul of its rolling stock in the coming years. West Midlands Railway are introducing their diesel 196s and in the not too distant future Transport for Wales will be bringing in the 197s. If the line was electrified both operators would need to bring in yet more new trains, which takes years and which will leave a surplus of perfectly good DMUS that will pollute the air somewhere else instead.

This sort of thing is one of the reasons why I believe the class 197 order is a big mistake. Network Rail's decarbonisation study recommends alot more electrification to make the railway net-zero - but if this implemented by 2050 (in line with the net-zero target for the whole economy) there will be a surplus of DMUs and the class 197 order just makes that surplus bigger. In my view the order should be cut to around 25 or 26 units with the others either cancelled or changed to DEMU/bi-mode units to facilitate easy convertion to EMU (sadly it's too late to amend the specification of all 77 units, since the first few are already complete).

The Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury route (ignoring COVID emergency timetables) has 3tph with the TfW service (at least) being a minimum of 4-cars. That means a minimum of 8 carriages per hour and possibly as many as 12 DMU carriages per hour (if all the WMR services run as 4-car). I think that justifies Network Rail's position that Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury is one of the many routes that should be electrified at some point. The question is therefore not whether it should be electrified (it clearly should) but when. There are clearly routes which would give a bigger return and you'd think they should come first, BUT there's a but coming...

That 'but' is that we have now largely eliminated the IC125s and there are alot of new/newish Hitachi AT300 bi-modes running around everywhere. The intercity projects simply aren't aligned with the need to replace old stock anymore, but there are alot of sprinters needing replacement. There is an urgent need for electrification that will cascade modern DMUs (such as 170s, 172s, 185s and 196s) to replace sprinters and thus prevent the construction of yet more new DMUs. In that regard, the top priority seems to be TPE where electrification of the remaining gaps between Manchester and York (and perhaps curtailment of some services from off-wire destinations to Manchester Airport at Piccadilly) would allow TPE to run everything with just the current Nova fleets (with most of the 68s moving onto the south TPE route) plus new EMUs, thus releasing ALL the 185s for cascade. Following TPE though, I'm not sure what comes next in terms of releasing alot of modern DMUs, Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury might be quite high up on that list with two 196s per hour that could be cascaded (TfW I believe should just keep the 158s until electrification and then introduce bi-mode Aventras or similar - the 197s intended for the Cambrian should never be allowed to enter service there - as noted above they should either be cancelled or delivered (to a different route) as DEMUs/bi-modes).

 

[RobShipway]

This sort of thing is one of the reasons why I believe the class 197 order is a big mistake. Network Rail's decarbonisation study recommends alot more electrification to make the railway net-zero - but if this implemented by 2050 (in line with the net-zero target for the whole economy) there will be a surplus of DMUs and the class 197 order just makes that surplus bigger. In my view the order should be cut to around 25 or 26 units with the others either cancelled or changed to DEMU/bi-mode units to facilitate easy convertion to EMU (sadly it's too late to amend the specification of all 77 units, since the first few are already complete).

The Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury route (ignoring COVID emergency timetables) has 3tph with the TfW service (at least) being a minimum of 4-cars. That means a minimum of 8 carriages per hour and possibly as many as 12 DMU carriages per hour (if all the WMR services run as 4-car). I think that justifies Network Rail's position that Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury is one of the many routes that should be electrified at some point. The question is therefore not whether it should be electrified (it clearly should) but when. There are clearly routes which would give a bigger return and you'd think they should come first, BUT there's a but coming...

That 'but' is that we have now largely eliminated the IC125s and there are alot of new/newish Hitachi AT300 bi-modes running around everywhere. The intercity projects simply aren't aligned with the need to replace old stock anymore, but there are alot of sprinters needing replacement. There is an urgent need for electrification that will cascade modern DMUs (such as 170s, 172s, 185s and 196s) to replace sprinters and thus prevent the construction of yet more new DMUs. In that regard, the top priority seems to be TPE where electrification of the remaining gaps between Manchester and York (and perhaps curtailment of some services from off-wire destinations to Manchester Airport at Piccadilly) would allow TPE to run everything with just the current Nova fleets (with most of the 68s moving onto the south TPE route) plus new EMUs, thus releasing ALL the 185s for cascade. Following TPE though, I'm not sure what comes next in terms of releasing alot of modern DMUs, Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury might be quite high up on that list with two 196s per hour that could be cascaded (TfW I believe should just keep the 158s until electrification and then introduce bi-mode Aventras or similar - the 197s intended for the Cambrian should never be allowed to enter service there - as noted above they should either be cancelled or delivered (to a different route) as DEMUs/bi-modes).

I thought that the fact that class 195, 196 and 197 where identical in construction to class 331, was such that they could be converted to be EMU units if needed at a later date?

TFW will be getting class 756 bi-mode units as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_756 within the next 2 years. As far as I am aware there are no plans for TFW to be hiring Bombardier Aventra units whether in either EMU or b-mode form. But I have to agree that TFW should have ordered more of the class 756 units than the 24 ordered which is 7 3-car and 17 4 car units. The problem though, is that there is not a two car version of the class 756 and with the power unit in the middle, there may not be enough space on any stations to fit a passenger coach each side of the power car or 3 or 4 car version of the class 756.

 

[wobman]

The thing is TFW can't just plan against what may happen in the future, electrification has been planned then cancelled numerous times. The 175's and 180's were meant to be emus until the good old Tories cancelled the planned electrification of the North Wales coast line. Network rail projects always take a lot longer than planned and double in cost, so with that in mind TFW have to plan for the here and now.
The CAF 197's are a big step up from the current rolling stock, plus we will see them on routes in service by the end of this year. It's great to see such huge investment in the Wales and borders franchise at last & maybe future cascades of emus could help in the decarbonisation of the Welsh railways if electrification actually ever happens.

 

[XAM2175]

I thought that the fact that class 195, 196 and 197 where identical in construction to class 331, was such that they could be converted to be EMU units if needed at a later date?

No, they have mechanical transmissions. Conversion to electric operation will require replacement of or significant modification to the drivetrains, on top of the needing space for the pantograph well and the transformer, and potentially also a traction current distribution bus.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I thought that the fact that class 195, 196 and 197 where identical in construction to class 331, was such that they could be converted to be EMU units if needed at a later date?

I'm not sure how 'identical' they really are - I'm assuming (without many facts to base this on) that any unassembled class 197 bodyshells could be fitted out for use in EMUs if need be but once assembled diesel is pretty much locked-in. I don't know if the bogies are different, given that the class 331s have traction motors and the 195/196/197 don't (being diesel-mechanical units not diesel-electric). The lack of traction motors on the DMUs would be a big barrier to convertion I expect and even some DEMUs (220s/221s/222s) have been put in the 'too difficult to convert' category. I understand one of the reasons E-Voyager failed was that the traction system on each coach on a Voyager is independent - there is no facility to feed power from other coaches so that if the engine fails on one coach you cannot use the traction motors on that coach (so the convertion would have had to add a means of feeding traction power from the pantograph car into the other vehicles). As mechanical units, you can bet that there is no traction power feed between vehicles on the Civity DMUs either. Also, the 195s (and I assume 196s and 197s) have no vehicles with a pantograph well, so like E-Voyager a new-build pantograph car would be needed or holes cut in the roof of the existing DMU vehicles.

As far as I am aware there are no plans for TFW to be hiring Bombardier Aventra units whether in either EMU or b-mode form.

TfW have no such plans (that I know of) - that was one of my suggestions for what TfW should do instead of 197s. This is the speculative ideas section after all.

 

[cle]

Note that for your case (which I support!) - you can double your cars per hour, given it's actually per direction.

I'm not sure on the Wrexham works/capacity/speeds and how that all ended, but that line will be seeing some more action with the Liverpool-Shrewsbury 1tph (with 1tp2h extended to Cardiff) - how that might impact the Birmingham-Chester route, I'm not sure. It could happily be hourly in itself, and speed up the Cardiff services - knowing Cambrian should be hourly (in two parts) also.

Could Wolves-Shrewsbury handle 4tph? Even if one regional can't make it into New St.

 

[The Planner]

Could Wolves-Shrewsbury handle 4tph? Even if one regional can't make it into New St.

Easy

 

[Dr Hoo]

The thing is TFW can't just plan against what may happen in the future, electrification has been planned then cancelled numerous times. The 175's and 180's were meant to be emus until the good old Tories cancelled the planned electrification of the North Wales coast line. Network rail projects always take a lot longer than planned and double in cost, so with that in mind TFW have to plan for the here and now.
The CAF 197's are a big step up from the current rolling stock, plus we will see them on routes in service by the end of this year. It's great to see such huge investment in the Wales and borders franchise at last & maybe future cascades of emus could help in the decarbonisation of the Welsh railways if electrification actually ever happens.

BIB

Do you have a source for this? I was not aware of any serious plans to electrify the routes used by these two classes and was under the impression that they were ordered during the 1997 Labour administration anyway.

 

[Bald Rick]

The 175's and 180's were meant to be emus until the good old Tories cancelled the planned electrification of the North Wales coast line.

Is that right? I’ve never heard of it.

Network rail projects always take a lot longer than planned and double in cost

All projects? Is that right?

 

[Rhydgaled]

All projects? Is that right?

I seem to recall some fanfare (I think it may have been the Reading station 'upgrade') that a scheme had actually been delivered either on time or on budget for once (or maybe even both on time AND on budget!) So it does happen occasionally.

 

[RobShipway]

The thing is TFW can't just plan against what may happen in the future, electrification has been planned then cancelled numerous times. The 175's and 180's were meant to be emus until the good old Tories cancelled the planned electrification of the North Wales coast line. Network rail projects always take a lot longer than planned and double in cost, so with that in mind TFW have to plan for the here and now.
The CAF 197's are a big step up from the current rolling stock, plus we will see them on routes in service by the end of this year. It's great to see such huge investment in the Wales and borders franchise at last & maybe future cascades of emus could help in the decarbonisation of the Welsh railways if electrification actually ever happens.

BIB

Do you have a source for this? I was not aware of any serious plans to electrify the routes used by these two classes and was under the impression that they were ordered during the 1997 Labour administration anyway.

Having travelled up to North wales many times since the 1970's either by train or by car from either Sussex or Berkshire, depending on where I was living at the time, I have never heard or seen any facts that electrification has been planned for the North Wales route. Many people have wanted electrification, but that is different to it being planned.

As Dr Hoo has stated, the building of the class 175/180 units was done between 1999 - 2001 and I believe that the order was put in late 1997 after the General Election that put Labour into power. Now I do think that discussions such as this that politics should be kept out of it. But I di know, with HS2 being built that the Welsh Government would like the North Wales Coast line amongst others to be electrified as per the future comment in the wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Wales_Coast_Line and also mentioned by the fact that Rob Roberts MP for Delyn did ask the Secretary of State for Transport as per https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2020-02-27.22061.h about electrification of the North Wales train line. The Rail Minister Chris Heaton-Harris responded with the following "
There are currently no plans to electrify the North Wales Coast Line.

The Department has funded extensive development work, through a series of Strategic Outline Business Cases (SOBCs) announced at the Autumn 2017 Budget, to identify where further investment into the Welsh rail network could make a real difference to the people and economy of Wales. Based on the findings of the SOBCs, we are taking enhancement proposals, including journey time improvements along the North Wales Coast Main Line between Llandudno and Chester, through the Rail Network Enhancement Pipeline (RNEP), subject to a better understanding and assurance of likely costs.

In addition, the Network Rail-led Traction Decarbonisation Network Strategy is developing costed options about the use of electrification and new technologies. This work is a priority for the Department and for Network Rail. It will conclude this year to inform Government decisions about the scale and pace of further rail decarbonisation as part of our Transport Decarbonisation Plan."

You also have the comment within https://www.railtechnologymagazine....th-wales-electrification-poor-value-for-money dated 5th march 2015, where Network Rail believes that electrifying the North Wales coast line would be poor value for money. This is the details "

network rail regulation and performance​

05.03.15

Network Rail deems North Wales electrification ‘poor value for money’​

Network Rail has proposed a number of capacity upgrades to the railway in Wales in the next control period and the longer term, including a major redevelopment of Cardiff Central station, improving line speeds and adding more capacity.
The proposals form part of the Welsh Route Study Draft for Consultation, and provide funders with options for Control Period 6. However, electrification of the North Wales Coast Main Line, a much-cited priority for the Welsh government and regional authorities, has been deemed “poor value for money” by Network Rail.
The plans would deliver a fully electrified railway between North Wales and London, Liverpool (assuming Halton Chord is also electrified) and Manchester.
But the report says appraisals have been carried to out to asses assess the financial viability of various options for the North Wales Coast and the “options assessed represent a poor value for money case for investment in CP6”.
The study covers the railway in Wales as well as the bordering counties. It has been developed collaboratively with the Welsh government, the Department for Transport and train and freight operating companies.
Tim James, head of strategy and planning for Network Rail Wales, said: “Our railway is carrying almost 50% more passengers than we were 10 years ago and that number is predicted to grow significantly in the years ahead.
“Work we are already doing over the next five years will make a huge difference, including electrifying parts of the railway and installing new signalling to help deliver improved reliability and the potential for more and faster journeys. There is still more to do to meet future demand.
“The Welsh Route Study Draft for Consultation sets out a number of investment choices for funders to meet increased passenger and freight demand, including a major redevelopment of Cardiff Central station and plans to modernise the railway across North Wales. Investment across the route will help to improve journeys for passengers and help to build a bigger and better railway that Wales and the borders can be proud of.”"

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Is that right? I’ve never heard of it.




All projects? Is that right?

There were various studies carried out in the 1990's regarding electrification of the North Wales main line , one of which was a franchise requirement for the Virgin operation. I know , I have studied it.


Re the 175's , there was an idea for them to be 125 mph capability , diesel of course , as there were aspirations for what was North West Trains to operate 4 trains a day from Holyhead to London. An idea fairly quickly rescinded.

 

[Ken H]

There were various studies carried out in the 1990's regarding electrification of the North Wales main line , one of which was a franchise requirement for the Virgin operation. I know , I have studied it.


Re the 175's , there was an idea for them to be 125 mph capability , diesel of course , as there were aspirations for what was North West Trains to operate 4 trains a day from Holyhead to London. An idea fairly quickly rescinded.

Didn't Freightliners abandoning Holyhead kill N Wales electrification numbers?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Didn't Freightliners abandoning Holyhead kill N Wales electrification numbers?

It would have made a serious negative impact on any business case - around 10 trains a day in total , - with Trafford Park being the shortest haul and daily services to Stratford , Willesden , Felixstowe and Southampton. (etc)