ABCL Stop boards

[60074]

My local TOC requires all drivers to stop at stop boards (every time) and apply the DRA, regardless of the instructions below them.

Are drivers permitted within the rules to bring trains to a snails pace (without stopping), follow the instructions and then proceed?

An example would be at an ABCL with the instructions “Wait for white light and whistle before proceeding”. This would be particularly useful for ECS moves where stopping becomes a hindrance

 

[dk1]

We have them on the East Suffolk line and there is no need to completely come to a stand. Once white light flashes we can sound horn (no need for 3 seconds on low tone) and accelerate.

 

[12guard4]

If your TOC requires it then you must do that.

 

[John Webb]

My local TOC requires all drivers to stop at stop boards (every time) and apply the DRA, regardless of the instructions below them.....

What is the DRA, please?

 

[hexagon789]

What is the DRA, please?

Driver Reminder Appliance

 

[John Webb]

Thanks, hexagon789.

 

[tedbaker]

Passing a stop board without authority (carrying out the printed instructions/being given permission by the authorised person) would be a SPAD.

The rule book is slightly ambiguous in that it states the driver may only proceed past the stop board once the instructions have been carried out, or permission to do so has been given by the authorised person. It does not explicitly say that you must stop beforehand, but personally I consider the word 'Stop' on the sign as an instruction in itself, so bring the train to a stand, do whatever needs doing, and then proceed. It's rare that any instruction doesn't require the train to be at a stand anyway.

In respect of level crossings, any ABCL/AOCL where a driver is not required to stop would have different signage (black cross on a white square background, speed restrictions and sighting boards etc). You are still required to check that the white light is flashing and that the crossing is clear.

If a train is required to stop at a crossing, a stop board will be present, and the rule states 'After you have stopped at the stop board, you must: (operate plunger/confirm crossing is clear/observe white flashing light/sound horn)'. This implies to me that any train approaching a stop board at a crossing must stop.

 

[Railsigns]

Failure to stop at a stop board that protects an automatic level crossing could result in the crossing warning time being compromised if this was calculated on the assumption that all trains start from rest.

 

[60074]

Failure to stop at a stop board that protects an automatic level crossing could result in the crossing warning time being compromised if this was calculated on the assumption that all trains start from rest.

If the white light is flashing then is there really an issue with not stopping?

 

[dk1]

If the white light is flashing then is there really an issue with not stopping?

Definitely not from my perspective, it just appears to be wasting time, but for some reason the OPs TOC has an issue with it.

 

[Railsigns]

If the white light is flashing then is there really an issue with not stopping?

Yes, because the flashing white light is only an indication that the red road lights are operating and the barriers have started to descend. Just seeing the flashing white is no guarantee that the statutory warning time will have elapsed before the train arrives if it approaches the crossing at a higher speed than expected.

Had it been deemed safe for trains to approach the crossing in question at low speed without stopping, then the signage at the lineside would reflect that.

 

[Kneedown]

As far as I am concerned, a stop board means stop first, and then comply with the instruction underneath.
Drivers have been charged with Cat A SPADs for not doing so.

 

[dk1]

As far as I am concerned, a stop board means stop first, and then comply with the instruction underneath.
Drivers have been charged with Cat A SPADs for not doing so.

But the flashing white means the same as a shunter calling you on at a stop board in a yard. You wouldn’t necessarily have to stop as you are obeying instructions. The flashing white at a stop board for an AOCL/ABCL/AOCL+B means the same and I do not need to come to a stand. Seems the OPs employer has made their own local instructions on this one.

 

[Kneedown]

But the flashing white means the same as a shunter calling you on at a stop board in a yard. You wouldn’t necessarily have to stop as you are obeying instructions. The flashing white at a stop board for an AOCL/ABCL/AOCL+B means the same and I do not need to come to a stand. Seems the OPs employer has made their own local instructions on this one.

On EMT when I worked out of Notts this was discussed at length after a few incidents on Eastcroft, and the conclusion was comply with the Stop Board first, before accepting any other handsignal. Primarily to give time to confirm that a handsignal applied to you, and not another train in an adjacent siding.

 

[skyhigh]

But the flashing white means the same as a shunter calling you on at a stop board in a yard. You wouldn’t necessarily have to stop as you are obeying instructions. The flashing white at a stop board for an AOCL/ABCL/AOCL+B means the same and I do not need to come to a stand. Seems the OPs employer has made their own local instructions on this one.

Different TOCs have different policies it seems. Mine takes the view that you must always stop at a stop board, irrespective of anything else.

We have a stop board that literally says "Proceed with caution" but if it was picked up on a download you didn't stop and apply the DRA you'd be in bother.

My view to the OP would simply be to follow the instructions you are given by your TOC.

 

[Sheridan]

We have a stop board that literally says "Proceed with caution" but if it was picked up on a download you didn't stop and apply the DRA you'd be in bother.

That’s an interesting one! How long would the train need to be at a stand/DRA applied for?

 

[Tomnick]

Absolutely no problem with stopping at stop boards, no matter how briefly.

I am very firmly of the opinion that putting the DRA in when you've already had authority to continue, or don't need authority, is unnecessary and constitutes overuse, and in turn diminishes its true value. So easy to get into a routine, and then go through the same motions at a stop board that you do actually need to wait for instructions at.

 

[Teddyward]

I have three stop & whistle ABCLs. Always stop & DRA because none of them show white light until well after coming to stand.

 

[Bumblerail]

If the white light is flashing then is there really an issue with not stopping?

No different to slowing for a red that steps up to yellow and then releasing the brake/ taking minimal power.

 

[66701GBRF]

But the flashing white means the same as a shunter calling you on at a stop board in a yard. You wouldn’t necessarily have to stop as you are obeying instructions.

We are not even able to take or give handsignals at stop boards now. Must be verbally authorised past even if you are the only train in the yard and still must stop even if already been given said instructions

 

[dk1]

We are not even able to take or give handsignals at stop boards now. Must be verbally authorised past even if you are the only train in the yard and still must stop even if already been given said instructions

It’s crazy how different and no offence but over the top some operators are with their local institutions mate.

 

[Bumblerail]

We are not even able to take or give handsignals at stop boards now. Must be verbally authorised past even if you are the only train in the yard and still must stop even if already been given said instructions

And o think we used to leave Old Oak Common with a wave of a newspaper from the window!

 

[66701GBRF]

It’s crazy how different and no offence but over the top some operators are with their local institutions mate.

No offence taken. It's a ridiculous position.

 

[800301]

Different TOCs have different policies it seems. Mine takes the view that you must always stop at a stop board, irrespective of anything else.

We have a stop board that literally says "Proceed with caution" but if it was picked up on a download you didn't stop and apply the DRA you'd be in bother.

Different places different policy’s, our instruction is that if we can promptly comply with the instructions then there is no need to set the DRA when stopped at a stop board

 

[357]

It’s crazy how different and no offence but over the top some operators are with their local institutions mate.

The other Essex TOC is the same, one manager even insisted that despite having been given radio instructions to pass a stop board drivers must not only set the DRA but also open the cab door for five seconds too!

The excuse was it would make marking up downloads easier... The flip side was that when that TOC banned solo shunting, people knew they could run through points and as long as they opened the cab door for five seconds the management would not be able to tell on a download that they were lone working

 

[dk1]

The other Essex TOC is the same, one manager even insisted that despite having been given radio instructions to pass a stop board drivers must not only set the DRA but also open the cab door for five seconds too!

The excuse was it would make marking up downloads easier... The flip side was that when that TOC banned solo shunting, people knew they could run through points and as long as they opened the cab door for five seconds the management would not be able to tell on a download that they were lone working

That just proves how mad things have become these days.