Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[MikePJ]

Here's a picture of the model bi-mode FLIRT that was exhibited when the order was announced. It shows two access doors on one side, suggesting two engines each side - i.e. four in total.

Source:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-east-anglia-order-for-stadler-trainsets.html

 

[47802]

A Browse on the Stadler website states that those newly launched Bi-Model Flirts use 2 Deutz V8 engines. It doesn't give bhp but a browse around suggests that they are 697bhp, the launch units are 3 car which I would think would certainly be enough for the 3 car Anglia units. It looks to me as though the power car is designed to accommodate 2 or 4 engines maybe even 3 so it could be the 4 car versions will have additional engine/s for a bit more power.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Don't be fooled. Both the ES & Sheringham lines have plenty of gradients as does Norwich-Wymondham.

Thanks dk1 part of the network Ive not managed yet.

Ive been interested in Stadlers trains for some time now mainly as when DafT tried to spin that no one made DMU's anymore as an excuse not to order new rolling stock I came across Stadlers website and the DMU versions of GTW and Flirt's being advertised for sale!

 

[MCR247]

Thanks dk1 part of the network Ive not managed yet.

Ive been interested in Stadlers trains for some time now mainly as when DafT tried to spin that no one made DMU's anymore as an excuse not to order new rolling stock I came across Stadlers website and the DMU versions of GTW and Flirt's being advertised for sale!

Wasn't it more that they argued they weren't needed?

 

[ac6000cw]

Don't be fooled. Both the ES & Sheringham lines have plenty of gradients as does Norwich-Wymondham.

...as does the Felixstowe branch at the Ipswich end, plus it needs fast acceleration & running on the flat parts to make the tight turnarounds workable.

 

[Alfie1014]

Thanks dk1 part of the network Ive not managed yet.

Ive been interested in Stadlers trains for some time now mainly as when DafT tried to spin that no one made DMU's anymore as an excuse not to order new rolling stock I came across Stadlers website and the DMU versions of GTW and Flirt's being advertised for sale!

Well at the time is was correct, no UK manufacturers had any diesel product and the ROSCO's weren't willing to finance them anyway. Both of the above assumptions were based on a hope that we had a rolling programme of electrification, which we all know has gone so well. Stadler at the time 2009-10 had no interest in the UK market, this has obviously now changed too.

 

[ac6000cw]

A Browse on the Stadler website states that those newly launched Bi-Model Flirts use 2 Deutz V8 engines. It doesn't give bhp but a browse around suggests that they are 697bhp, the launch units are 3 car which I would think would certainly be enough for the 3 car Anglia units. It looks to me as though the power car is designed to accommodate 2 or 4 engines maybe even 3 so it could be the 4 car versions will have additional engine/s for a bit more power.

As far as I can find, those Deutz V8 engines are about 950mm wide (at right angles to the crankshaft), so the central passageway through the power car might be fairly cosy. Mind you, that's 1400 hp in stereo as you walk through

(This is the spec sheet for the 'agricultural' version - http://deutz.com/live_deutz_product...f8120c0.de.0/tcd_12.0_16.0_agriculture_en.pdf )

 

[Bornin1980s]

Also, unlike a range of cars or aircraft, none of the existing Stadler range were suitable for uk use. All were either too large, the wrong gauge, or both, and all had the floor too low.

Here's a picture of the model bi-mode FLIRT that was exhibited when the order was announced. It shows two access doors on one side, suggesting two engines each side - i.e. four in total.

Source:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-east-anglia-order-for-stadler-trainsets.html

Note the high roof behind the power module. That's not a carriage, that's another power module. Another image in the same article makes that clear. An article in Modern Railways last year stated that the three car units would have two engines, the four car units four. That, and the fact that eight engines would be overkill, leads to the conclusion that each module holds two engines. That said, I don't see why they would need 100% more power for 30% more weight. Still, better in the middle than under the floor.

 

[Martin222002]

I've been meaning to do this for a while but this thread has reminded me to do it.

Below I've attached the details for the Greater Anglia Intercity, Airport & Regional Flirt's from the information sheets which were on the Stadler stand at Railtex back in May.

Unfortunately I can't seem to get then to attach the right way round. So to summaries, here are a few facts regarding the Greater Anglia ordered Flirts which I haven't seen elsewhere.

The Intercity & Airport 12 car EMUs will have a maximum power at the wheel rating of 5200 kW / 6973 hp & a maximum 0-40mph acceleration rating of 0.9m/s2.

The Regional 4 car bi-modes will have a maximum power at the wheel rating when on electric power of 2600 kW / 3487 hp, a maximum diesel engine power rating of 1920 kW / 2576 hp (480 kW / 644hp per engine), & a maximum 0-40mph acceleration rating of 1.1m/s2 when on electric & 0.9m/s2 when on diesel.

The Regional 3 car bi-modes will also have a maximum power at the wheel rating when on electric power of 2600 kW / 3487 hp, but a maximum diesel engine power rating of 960 kW 1288 hp (480 kW / 644 hp per engine), & a maximum 0-40mph acceleration rating of 1.3m/s2 when on electric & 0.7m/s2 when on diesel.

(Note: All hp figures have been rounded up to the nearest digit.)

 

[samuelmorris]

That's very interesting, thanks for the upload. One thing puzzles me though - double the power on the 4-car (presumably double the number of engines fitted), yet a lower figure for acceleration - I'd have expected it to be at least the same, surely?

 

[Martin222002]

That's very interesting, thanks for the upload. One thing puzzles me though - double the power on the 4-car (presumably double the number of engines fitted), yet a lower figure for acceleration - I'd have expected it to be at least the same, surely?

The acceleration figure for the 4 cars when on diesel is slightly higher at 0.9 with the 3 cars being 0.7 with the two less engines.

It's when on electric that the 3 cars should accelerate faster than the 4 cars, 1.3 vs 1.1 respectively. This is due to the fact they both have the same power output on electric but the 3 cars have the one less coach, and as such less mass to move.

 

[dk1]

...as does the Felixstowe branch at the Ipswich end, plus it needs fast acceleration & running on the flat parts to make the tight turnarounds workable.

Yes mate, that's why I said ES (East Suffolk).

 

[AlexNL]

aren't Stadler trains built in Berlin?

As far as my understanding goes, Berlin mostly occupies itself with tram, metro and lightrail stuff. Mainline rail is mostly built in Bussnang, but Siedlce (Poland) has also been building a lot lately.

The FLIRTs for NS have been built in Poland, for example.

 

[Bornin1980s]

I still don't understand, why double the diesel power on the addition of just one carriage? After all, you could add trailers to less powerful first generation dmus.

Also, is it typical such short electric units to have type 5 horsepower?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also, is it typical such short electric units to have type 5 horsepower?

I don't know if it's typical, but high acceleration means faster local services, which is a big benefit.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Well at the time is was correct, no UK manufacturers had any diesel product and the ROSCO's weren't willing to finance them anyway. Both of the above assumptions were based on a hope that we had a rolling programme of electrification, which we all know has gone so well. Stadler at the time 2009-10 had no interest in the UK market, this has obviously now changed too.

They started off spinning the "it will be alright there's cascades" and then seem to have added on the "there's no DMU's being built" bit when folk started questioning the detail on the mythical cascades.

Stadler were probably never asked if they interested to be fair.

 

[dp21]

As far as my understanding goes, Berlin mostly occupies itself with tram, metro and lightrail stuff. Mainline rail is mostly built in Bussnang, but Siedlce (Poland) has also been building a lot lately.

The FLIRTs for NS have been built in Poland, for example.

It was my understanding these were to be built in Switzerland, however I can't confirm that. Prior to overhearing that I believe it to be Poland too.

 

[eastdyke]

It was my understanding these were to be built in Switzerland, however I can't confirm that. Prior to overhearing that I believe it to be Poland too.

The Abellio press release which came out 5th October 2016 (undated in the link below) stated that the FLIRT units would be built 'in Switzerland'.

https://www.abellio.com/news/abellio-confirms-deal-stadler-and-rock-rail-new-trains

Two new fleets of 1,043 carriages will be introduced to the franchise between Spring 2019 and Autumn 2020, built by Bombardier in Derby (665 carriages) and Stadler in Switzerland (378 carriages).

Of course plans could change ....

 

[dp21]

The Abellio press release which came out 5th October 2016 (undated in the link below) stated that the FLIRT units would be built 'in Switzerland'.

https://www.abellio.com/news/abellio-confirms-deal-stadler-and-rock-rail-new-trains



Of course plans could change ....

I'd imagine that's the case then. I'll keep my ear to the ground and see if I hear anything else.

I can also imagine Stadler keeping this project close to HQ given it'll be the first of it's type and possibly key to obtaining future orders. Just a thought!

 

[MikePJ]

Note the high roof behind the power module. That's not a carriage, that's another power module. Another image in the same article makes that clear. An article in Modern Railways last year stated that the three car units would have two engines, the four car units four. That, and the fact that eight engines would be overkill, leads to the conclusion that each module holds two engines.

Well spotted - if you zoom in on the other image of the model, you can see there are two power modules, so a "four car" unit will actually be in six sections!

So two engines per module, after all. These are going to be very unusual units!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CLH]

Well spotted - if you zoom in on the other image of the model, you can see there are two power modules, so a "four car" unit will actually be in six sections!

So two engines per module, after all. These are going to be very unusual units!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is that not just a reflection in the glass where the model stops?

 

[Domh245]

Is that not just a reflection in the glass where the model stops?

Correct!

 

[MikePJ]

Correct!

So it is! Had me all excited for a moment there...

 

[ac6000cw]

If you look carefully at the info sheets (from Stadler) that were posted earlier - http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3027536&postcount=39 - it details the axle arrangements for the 3 & 4 car units:

3-car is Bo-2-2-2-Bo

4-car is Bo-2-2-2-2-Bo

...the 4-car gains one articulated bogie and 15.7m of length (for the extra middle trailer car), so it must still have only one power car, just fitted with extra engines. So I assume the power car design allows for up to 4 engines to be fitted (in the 6.69m length). Note the 4-car unit has a seating capacity of 202, which is around the same as a 3-car 170, due to the Flirt cars being shorter.

 

[eastdyke]

If you look carefully at the info sheets (from Stadler) that were posted earlier - http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3027536&postcount=39 - it details the axle arrangements for the 3 & 4 car units:

3-car is Bo-2-2-2-Bo

4-car is Bo-2-2-2-2-Bo

...the 4-car gains one articulated bogie and 15.7m of length (for the extra middle trailer car), so it must still have only one power car, just fitted with extra engines. So I assume the power car design allows for up to 4 engines to be fitted (in the 6.69m length). Note the 4-car unit has a seating capacity of 202, which is around the same as a 3-car 170, due to the Flirt cars being shorter.

I have in mind that 170 3-cars sets include 180 seats but perhaps that was before the latest refurbs. The FLIRT 4 car sets also have 27 tip-up seats.

The FLIRT 3 car sets with 144 seats plus 23 tip-ups (and 2 toilets) are going to improve the journeys of all those pax used to single 153's!

 

[dp21]

If you look carefully at the info sheets (from Stadler) that were posted earlier - http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3027536&postcount=39 - it details the axle arrangements for the 3 & 4 car units:

3-car is Bo-2-2-2-Bo

4-car is Bo-2-2-2-2-Bo

...the 4-car gains one articulated bogie and 15.7m of length (for the extra middle trailer car), so it must still have only one power car, just fitted with extra engines. So I assume the power car design allows for up to 4 engines to be fitted (in the 6.69m length). Note the 4-car unit has a seating capacity of 202, which is around the same as a 3-car 170, due to the Flirt cars being shorter.

I've seen the renders of these and you are correct, both 3- and 4-car units have just the one power car.

 

[Mordac]

Only two powered bogies? That's a bit rubbish isn't it?

 

[43096]

Only two powered bogies? That's a bit rubbish isn't it?

Depends how much power they have...

As an example, the Swiss version has max power output of 2.6MW, or 3,485hp, for a train of 124t weight. That's 28hp/tonne - which is very high.

http://documents.epfl.ch/users/a/al/allenbac/www/documents/Fich0321.pdf

 

[samuelmorris]

At least they're at opposite ends of the train, but yeah for an almost 80m train, two powered bogies is very nearly back to 317-321 standards. Potential WSP problems?

 

[edwin_m]

July's Modern Railways states:
-12-car sets are two six-car sets back to back, with a power bogie each end of the 6-car to make four power bogies in total.
- Confirmed two power bogies on a 3- or 4-car set, one each end.
- One power pack in 3- or 4-car sets.

I think we can therefore conclude that the articulated bogies are unpowered. My guess is that the power packs are all the same, approximating to the rating of the traction motors in the two bogies. These are also of course likely to be the bogies with the lowest axle loads, and no rail conditioning for the one at the front. But you'd expect with their experience of building for Alpine railways Stadler would know about adhesion.