-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Abellio launch "Multipass" smartphone ticketing on West Anglia
- Thread starter jopsuk
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
mattdickinson
Member
The back office part is very similar to TfL Contactless or Southern Keygo.
The advantage to the TOC is that they just have to install BLE beacons rather than gates or validators.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
aka "doing it on the cheap".
I go to a ticket office and excess the ticket to what I need it to be, or if that isn't an option buy an additional one. I can also refund any walk-up paper ticket less £10 (I don't do Advances, and in any case Advances are irrelevant to this concept), and if I do it at the point of origin most likely they will "non-issue" it for no additional charge.
I don't think I have ever completely changed my plans while sitting on the train, so that's a non-issue.
No, that isn't why Oyster is popular. Oyster is primarily popular because TfL make punitive charges for paying by any other method (except contactless). Simple as that. Capping is nice, but travelling around London is nothing like making a longer return journey.
I had worked that out
TBH I think it's a gimmick with many serious flaws and I suspect your trial will not meet with success.
I will hate to disappoint you...
But thank you for your encouragement anyway.As for Oyster, you described the reasons for its uptake; I was referring to the reasons why an average user likes Oyster now (it's not even capping per se, but convenience and "peace of mind").
Re changing one's mind: it's not about doing so on the train, it's about buying a single ticket but having to return on the same day, or buing Day Return and staying for longer (just some of the scenarios).
I agree that there are use cases described by you, when the passenger prefers simplicity of buying a mobile ticket "on the go" before travelling. MultiPass will allow for that too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
MultiPass pilot will soon be expanded, with Android limitation "lifted". I'll post an invite here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Contactless cards only work on routes with gates. MultiPass covers both (via BLE and soon-to-be-introduced contactless interface, including TfL coverage).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Guilty as charged: MultiPass does indeed allows to save millions of taxpayers money...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
No, the passenger will be charged £32.10 (£21 + £11.10).
mattdickinson
Member
I will hate to disappoint you...
As for Oyster, you described the reasons for its uptake; I was referring to the reasons why an average user likes Oyster now (it's not even capping per se, but convenience and "peace of mind").
Re changing one's mind: it's not about doing so on the train, it's about buying a single ticket but having to return on the same day, or buing Day Return and staying for longer (just some of the scenarios).
I agree that there are use cases described by you, when the passenger prefers simplicity of buying a mobile ticket "on the go" before travelling. MultiPass will allow for that too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
MultiPass pilot will soon be expanded, with Android limitation "lifted". I'll post an invite here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Contactless cards only work on routes with gates. MultiPass covers both (via BLE and soon-to-be-introduced contactless interface, including TfL coverage).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Guilty as charged: MultiPass does indeed allows to save millions of taxpayers money...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
No, the passenger will be charged £32.10 (£21 + £11.10).
According to the T&Cs, only the Day Return price is used to derive the Best Price. The only multi-day ticket mentioned is the Weekly season.
Do I take it that this system isn't yet configured to work on the Southbury loop? If so, how will the situation be handled if someone catches (say) the first Cambridge to Liverpool Street train on a Saturday and disembarks at Seven Sisters?
Will check re T&Cs and revert.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There are no AGA trains from Cambridge that stop at Seven Sisters. If the passenger travels outside the pilot route, he/she needs to have a valid ticket for that journey.
You might want to have a look at the timetable. There's a southbound service every day except Sunday which goes via Seven Sisters: MonFri it's the last train of the day, whilst Saturdays it's the first.
Whilst I take your point that outside of the pilot route people will be travelling on an invalid ticket, this pilot does seem to be advertised as a way to travel from Cambridge to London, and in the cases that I've given, it cannot be argued that Seven Sisters isn't on the way from Cambridge to London. I admit this is an edge case as the trains are at the ends of the day but it does nonetheless seem that something is being advertised which could theoretically land someone with a penalty fare.
Good point! We'll get that fixed, one way or another. Will revert.
CockneySparrow
Member
Yes that's why I am steering clear of mobile tickets, the average smart phone battery last a day so there us a chance you can run out of power especially whilst you are trying to get on the net in a bad place, drains the battery quickly
ATG, thanks for coming by to answer all of our questions. As you may have worked out, this forum is full of harsh critics
I can see how an app you just install and forget about can appeal to many ordinary rail passengers. No queues at the ticket office and faffing at TVMs for one thing. No need to work out which is the best ticket to buy, which most people who are not members of this forum do find confusing. Lots of people generally perceive Oyster, smartcards and to be easy and simple, and will be more than happy to install any app they can get their hands on without wondering how it works. There's also the 'its an app so it must be cool' mentality that prevails nowadays. Doing all the calculations in the back office makes sense here.
I know it can be quite complex working out the best ticket combinations for a set of journeys can be, and I applaud the work that has no doubt gone into all of this. That said, I stand by my original post as to why I personally won't be using the app any time soon.
One of many examples of the type of overcharging that makes me wary of continuous card authorities is that once my local council took my council tax Direct Debit twice on the same day in error. They refused to refund it back, instead saying the only thing they could do was make it so they instead didn't take the DD in the last month of the tax year to balance things out. That would be 6 months away. My bank refused to invoke the Direct Debit guarantee, put a mark on the credit report as it took me overdrawn, and tried to charge me an unauthorised overdraft fee.
I'm confused as to why in the terms 'we' is TEDIPAY (UK) Limited (whose registered address the website has wrong), but the EV SSL certificate holder and customer services contact is Multipass (UK) Limited. It isn't clear who is operating this site, and it makes me wary of how any disputes will be dealt with
I'm also disappointed that once again, every TOC seems to be doing their own thing, instead of working together on one integrated system.
I can see how an app you just install and forget about can appeal to many ordinary rail passengers. No queues at the ticket office and faffing at TVMs for one thing. No need to work out which is the best ticket to buy, which most people who are not members of this forum do find confusing. Lots of people generally perceive Oyster, smartcards and to be easy and simple, and will be more than happy to install any app they can get their hands on without wondering how it works. There's also the 'its an app so it must be cool' mentality that prevails nowadays. Doing all the calculations in the back office makes sense here.
I know it can be quite complex working out the best ticket combinations for a set of journeys can be, and I applaud the work that has no doubt gone into all of this. That said, I stand by my original post as to why I personally won't be using the app any time soon.
One of many examples of the type of overcharging that makes me wary of continuous card authorities is that once my local council took my council tax Direct Debit twice on the same day in error. They refused to refund it back, instead saying the only thing they could do was make it so they instead didn't take the DD in the last month of the tax year to balance things out. That would be 6 months away. My bank refused to invoke the Direct Debit guarantee, put a mark on the credit report as it took me overdrawn, and tried to charge me an unauthorised overdraft fee.
I'm confused as to why in the terms 'we' is TEDIPAY (UK) Limited (whose registered address the website has wrong), but the EV SSL certificate holder and customer services contact is Multipass (UK) Limited. It isn't clear who is operating this site, and it makes me wary of how any disputes will be dealt with
I'm also disappointed that once again, every TOC seems to be doing their own thing, instead of working together on one integrated system.
Matt, T&Cs will be updated to reflect the scenario you highlighted. Thank you for your valuable input.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
ATG, thanks for coming by to answer all of our questions. As you may have worked out, this forum is full of harsh critics
I'm also disappointed that once again, every TOC seems to be doing their own thing, instead of working together on one integrated system.
MM, thank you for your constructive criticism. You raised some valid points.
MultiPass will be offering an option of pre-purchasing m-tickets - including Advance Purchase - for those passengers who wish to do so, thus still offering the benefits of "no queuing" and "no paper tickets". There will be a "mix-n-match" option too, combining prepay and post-pay.
We'll be updating our T&Cs to reflect our promise to deal with all payment-related queries quickly and efficiently.
A lot of things will be trialled and changed during the pilot, to iron out many aspects of the service before the commercial launch.
The "big picture" plan is to unite, as a neutral "overlaying" umbrella, all transport operators so that MultiPass can become a "nationwide Oyster", offering passengers seamless multi-modal travel within the country. I bet you can imagine the challenges we are facing there...
(SSL certificate has to be in the same name as the service itself - one of the HSBC's requirements.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
iOS and Android handle BLE differently. We are working on iOS version of MultiPass too.
I would love to get on this trial if any more spaces come up. I'm using AGA West Anglia a minimum of once per week, often more (sometimes it could work out cheaper to but a weekly season but I don't as I don't know until it's too late) and I vary the routes. Tottenham to Cheshunt, Cheshunt to Stratford etc.
Seven Sisters will be added to the route and T&Cs updated accordingly. Thank you for spotting that edge case, Be3G!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I will post a link here when "Phase 2" of the pilot launches in early May. That will be open to iPhone users too, btw.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I must say that while I have some difficulties with some of the concept, it is certainly good the level of research you seem to be doing e.g. on here, as is your willingness to fix shortcomings very quickly.
Thank you for your kind words.
We genuinely want to help the UK Government to turn their election promises into the reality: http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/editors-blog/2015/04/the-missing-election-manifesto.html
It's time this country stepped into the next century when it comes to ticketing. I've already had that orange piece of paper framed!
Last edited:
ATG - is it your lot who do the Arriva Multi pass too?http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/MobileMultiFlex/
If so then why have you not opened this one on to the other platforms?
If so then why have you not opened this one on to the other platforms?
Yes, all such cases are being addressed, i.e. the rules for the pilot route will be reviewed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Not us, no.
Paul Kelly
Verified Rep - BR Fares
From my superficial understanding of the situation it sounds as if you alight anywhere between Cheshunt and Hackney Downs on that early train you'll be charged as if you alighted at Cheshunt, as that would be the last beacon you passed.
The last beacon - at present - is at Tottenham Hale. The stations between TOM and LST will be covered during the next phase of the pilot - there are some challenges there.
We had a thread on the trial last year
Seems like it is going live across the franchise in coming months
http://www.theguardian.com/business...t-fare-after-travelled-multipass-british-rail
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=114529&highlight=Multipass
Here is the old thread
Seems like it is going live across the franchise in coming months
http://www.theguardian.com/business...t-fare-after-travelled-multipass-british-rail
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=114529&highlight=Multipass
Here is the old thread
I ordered my new Smart Card for AGA and only then did I read the small print that existing season tickets aren't able to be transferred across, but it is hope this feature is "coming soon". Does anyone know how soon? Not sure I can wait until my AGC expires in October!
Edit: I think the phrasing was more like "..working on a way of transferring existing tickets over to the Smart Card.."
Edit: I think the phrasing was more like "..working on a way of transferring existing tickets over to the Smart Card.."
Last edited:
Based on experiences with other TOCs' smartcard systems, I'd not be in a hurry to do their beta testing for free.
Paul Kelly
Verified Rep - BR Fares
Do you mean a Multipass card? Are they publicly available yet? I would definitely be interested in trying one out but as far as I was aware the full AGA-wide version referred to in the Guardian article isn't launched yet?
I suppose so, yes - if multpass is the more technical term
Their advertising on the ticket barriers was changed from "Coming soon" to "Swipe your smart card here" or something. Have a look on www.abelliogreateranglia.co.uk/smart for more info.My card arrived withint 2 days from the quoted 5 days but like I say I'm stuck until my existing seasons expires in October or they can come up with a way of tx'ing the existing one.
Last edited:
- Status