Abellio wins West Midlands franchise

[Japan0913]

Btw, to mods, this isn't spam, I've just translated it and it's talking about the topic, here,
Reason why JR East could enter
1. Suica is spreading electronic money for the railroad.
2. JR East and Hitachi Rail are developing and introducing electric vehicles for local lines in cold areas.
3. The comprehensive vehicle factory of the subsidiary has extensive development experience from commuting type vehicles to Shinkansen and can leave the development of vehicles for Britain.
4. JR East has a wealth of operational experience including network of Japan's capital Tokyo, bullet train line network mainly to cold regions.
5. In Japan, the operation management system is functioning accurately so that there is no human delay.
6. In the case of Japan Prepare a precise plan so that maintenance can be carried out while continuing business.
However,
· In the UK, as many operators with different personality live together on the same route, they are unlikely to behave like Japan because they are easy to cause delays.
· In Japan, the strikes became less noticeable in the UK. Although this is also temporary, the degree of service deterioration is serious.

The name of the electronic money of the "JR East Japan" is "Suica"
electric vehicles ⇒ battery drive train.
Japan, the strike became unnoticeable

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is West Midlands Trains going to offer seat reservations on some routes?

Euston to Crewe
Euston to Birmingham
Birmingham to Liverpool

these routes would benefit greatly from seat reservations being offered.

They would only work if an electronic reservation system was fitted so they could be loaded prior to arrival at Euston for the next departure. They were offered in the past, but the way Euston is operated for regional trains (where the platform is sometimes given before the stock arrives, and the commuters know it anyway) meant it caused *lots* of arguments and was really not workable.

 

[Japan0913]

◆◆ Suica ◆◆
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suica
Suica is a rechargeable contactless smart card, electronic money used as a fare card on train lines in Japan.


◆◆ ATOS (Autonomous Decentralized Transport Operation Control System) ◆◆
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATOS

(Tōkyō Ken Yusō Kanri Shisutemu) or ATOS is a computerized control system
used by the East Japan Railway Company to regulate train traffic on railway lines in metropolitan Tokyo, Japan.
It was designed by Hitachi. The first deployment was on the Chūō Main Line in 1997. It is now used on fourteen lines listed below.

On ATOS-enabled lines each train station has electronic displays, which show scheduled arrival times and train destinations in Japanese and English,
warn passengers when trains are arriving or passing through, send updates on system delays and accidents, and display messages to advertise JR products or warn passengers not to smoke.
Voice announcements in train stations are also automated by ATOS using speech synthesis.

ATOS also directs train drivers through 16-by-16 lamp matrices, which flash messages telling the train driver to speed up, slow down,
or adjust their scheduled departure time in order to keep the entire network running on schedule.

Several JR lines in the Kantō region use CTC or PRC systems in lieu of ATOS.


◆◆ hybrid diesel multiple unit (DMU)train ◆◆
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HB-E210_series　

Manufacturer：Japan Transport Engineering Company (J-TREC)
The HB-E210 series is a hybrid diesel multiple unit (DMU) train type operated by East Japan Railway Company (JR East)

◆◆ battery electric multiple unit (BEMU) train ◆◆
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV-E801_series　

Manufacturer：Hitachi Rail
the EV-E801 series is a two-car battery electric multiple unit (BEMU) train type operated by East Japan Railway Company (JR East)

 

[Mollman]

No doubt Porterbrook engineers will be looking at ways to stick Diesel Engines on them as we speak

The issue I've found with the 323s is they tend to leak inside after it has rained.

 

[gray1404]

They would only work if an electronic reservation system was fitted so they could be loaded prior to arrival at Euston for the next departure. They were offered in the past, but the way Euston is operated for regional trains (where the platform is sometimes given before the stock arrives, and the commuters know it anyway) meant it caused *lots* of arguments and was really not workable.

I think at least for the Crewe to Euston service is should be introduced given it is only one train per hour. The incoming unit often sits doors locked in the platform for quite some time before departure anyway at Euston, so the reservations could be placed on the seats then.

I totally agree that electronic reservations is the best way forward but in the mean time, the old reservations cards should/could be used.

 

[Class 170101]

But they would only then be able to sell the same number of reservations as seats. Doing it by train means it can be limitless.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Will the trains that go no where near the West Midlands, be branded separately to WM trains?

For example... London to Crewe... the suburban London knes

 

[gray1404]

But they would only then be able to sell the same number of reservations as seats. Doing it by train means it can be limitless.

Even on trains with counted place reservations there is a still a limit imposed on the number of advance tickets. This would not be effected if real reservations were offered.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They aren't going to be selling an entire 350 worth of Advances. The problem is that with delays etc it really was not working. Better not to offer reservations than to offer them inconsistently.

 

[JaJaWa]

Will the trains that go no where near the West Midlands, be branded separately to WM trains?

For example... London to Crewe... the suburban London knes

From what's been released so far, it's "West Midlands Railway" for services around Birmingham, and "wmtrains" for the other services...

 

[Clip]

I think at least for the Crewe to Euston service is should be introduced given it is only one train per hour. The incoming unit often sits doors locked in the platform for quite some time before departure anyway at Euston, so the reservations could be placed on the seats then.

I totally agree that electronic reservations is the best way forward but in the mean time, the old reservations cards should/could be used.

Do they have a slot to put the cards? cant say ive noticed them

 

[boeing737229]

Porterbrook blocked the Northern franchise bidders from retaining the 323s long term in the hope they would take on more 319s and that the next LM franchise would want 323s. The plans backfired as 319s aren't suitable for all Northern electrified routes and it seems Abellio don't want the 323s for the West Midlands franchise.

Porterbrook should perhaps give Northern an option to retain the 323s coz itd be a shame for us to lose them too!
If the new West Midland Franchise doesnt have the intention of keeping them, goodness knows where in the UK they'll end up if they dont come up to Northern!

 

[158756]

Porterbrook should perhaps give Northern an option to retain the 323s coz itd be a shame for us to lose them too!
If the new West Midland Franchise doesnt have the intention of keeping them, goodness knows where in the UK they'll end up if they dont come up to Northern!

No franchises which might want them are up for renewal any time soon, so unless the Valleys are electrified very quickly it looks like diesel conversion or scrap, and since they're owned by Porterbrook they probably won't want to spend the money on a conversion unless they run out of 319s or someone requires a better product than a 769.

 

[boeing737229]

No franchises which might want them are up for renewal any time soon, so unless the Valleys are electrified very quickly it looks like diesel conversion or scrap, and since they're owned by Porterbrook they probably won't want to spend the money on a conversion unless they run out of 319s or someone requires a better product than a 769.

They're FAR too young to scrap! I imagine they'll end up on the Valley Lines replacing the 142s & 143s (then in the same way some could also end up with FGW), or with Northern on the routes not suitable for 319s [there are some local stoppers around my parts that I could just NEVER imagine a 319 on, but it'd be so nice to have 323s, my fave EMU]. It IS a shame that the new West Mids franchise doesn't want them My trips to Brum just won't be the same anymore!

 

[ChrisHogan]

They're FAR too young to scrap! I imagine they'll end up on the Valley Lines replacing the 142s & 143s (then in the same way some could also end up with FGW), or with Northern on the routes not suitable for 319s [there are some local stoppers around my parts that I could just NEVER imagine a 319 on, but it'd be so nice to have 323s, my fave EMU]. It IS a shame that the new West Mids franchise doesn't want them My trips to Brum just won't be the same anymore!

In 2022, 323201 will be thirty years old. Thirty years is the normal life expectancy for an emu.

323s cannot meet the ITT spec for WM in autumn leaffall on CrossCity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do they have a slot to put the cards? cant say ive noticed them

Yes, they do (though I had to Google to confirm).

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

In 2022, 323201 will be thirty years old. Thirty years is the normal life expectancy for an emu.

323s cannot meet the ITT spec for WM in autumn leaffall on CrossCity.

I don't agree. I would say that 30 years is the minimum life expectancy for an EMU in this country and many have proven to be perfectly serviceable at 40 years old, ie 313s today, 303s 15 years ago.

 

[CosherB]

I don't agree. I would say that 30 years is the minimum life expectancy for an EMU in this country and many have proven to be perfectly serviceable at 40 years old, ie 313s today, 303s 15 years ago.

Indeed. The idea of scrapping 323s anytime soon is preposterous. Get them back to Northern!

 

[boeing737229]

Indeed. The idea of scrapping 323s anytime soon is preposterous. Get them back to Northern!

maybe when my local lines around Huddersfield are electrified Northern'll get the lot (well, i can dream can't I?)
142s = one of my fave DMUs
323s = my fave EMU hands down
323s as replacement for 142s on local services around Hudds = perfection

I'll really miss seeing 323s when I go to the West Mids!

 

[centraltrains]

Slightly off topic question: Would there have been much local demand for re-starting the Wolverhampton to Walsall shuttle? Surely it is the perfect sort of line for another PPM?

 

[northwichcat]

I don't agree. I would say that 30 years is the minimum life expectancy for an EMU in this country and many have proven to be perfectly serviceable at 40 years old, ie 313s today, 303s 15 years ago.

Agreed. I think it was mentioned that DMUs are designed to last for at least 25 years and EMUs for at least 30 but if they get an overhaul they can be kept for service for longer. The Merseyrail 507s and 508s will also be around 40 years old when they are replaced, despite some ex-Southeastern 508s being scrapped years ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed. I think it was mentioned that DMUs are designed to last for at least 25 years and EMUs for at least 30 but if they get an overhaul they can be kept for service for longer. The Merseyrail 507s and 508s will also be around 40 years old when they are replaced, despite some ex-Southeastern 508s being scrapped years ago.

In the end you can keep anything in service as long as you like (though it does tend to start looking like Grandma's old broom which has had 20 new heads and 15 new handles but is still the same broom). It's just when it starts being cheaper or otherwise better to build new.

I've mentioned Land Rovers, as those are a good example - most cars are kept on the road about 10 years as they become uneconomic to repair, but because Land Rovers tend to be cherished people repair them regardless of cost and so there are plenty of 30+ year old examples about - but with a lot of new parts and often new major components like chassis and rebuilt engines (on which the block is possibly the only original component).

 

[OwlMan]

Will the trains that go no where near the West Midlands, be branded separately to WM trains?

For example... London to Crewe... the suburban London knes

You will probably find that the West Midlands in rail terms is larger than you think.

West Midlands Trains (the body responsible for rail tansport in the West Midlands) consists of the following councils:
Full Members: Birmingham; Coventry; Dudley; Herefordshire; Northamptonshire; Sandwell; Solihull; Shropshire; Staffordshire; Telford and Wrekin; Walsall; Warwickshire; Wolverhampton; Worcestershire. Associate Members: Cheshire East and Stoke on Trent.
see http://www.westmidlandsrail.com/ for further details

 

[northwichcat]

West Midlands Trains (the body responsible for rail tansport in the West Midlands) consists of the following councils:
Full Members: Birmingham; Coventry; Dudley; Herefordshire; Northamptonshire; Sandwell; Solihull; Shropshire; Staffordshire; Telford and Wrekin; Walsall; Warwickshire; Wolverhampton; Worcestershire. Associate Members: Cheshire East and Stoke on Trent.
see http://www.westmidlandsrail.com/ for further details

Cheshire East and Stoke are associate members because they are full members of Rail North. Given the LM franchise provides the only services to Winsford, Hartford and Acton Bridge stations, I'm surprised Cheshire West council are not also an associate member.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Slightly off topic question: Would there have been much local demand for re-starting the Wolverhampton to Walsall shuttle? Surely it is the perfect sort of line for another PPM?

Anecdotally, there is certainly local demand in that people say that they want it, but the big question is would those people actually use it if it was reinstated?

The two are quite different.

I personally have no particular desire to go to Walsall, by any means.

 

[bussnapperwm]

The Stakeholder Briefing issued last year detailed most of the service requirements for the WM franchise:
WMBU 1 tph BNS-Wolves extended to Crewe via Stoke
New Sunday service BNS to Shrewsbury
Coventry-Leamington shuttle
XCity extended to Bromsgrove December 2018
WCBU Trent Valley service diverted to run direct Stafford to Crewe

Otherwise it is all frequency enhancements (evenings and Sundays, off-peak to Shrewsbury and Rugeley TV, and Coventry-Nuneaton when the Coventry bay built).

I think you are looking at the WMBU map and not finding BNS-Liverpool. This is WCBU service.

Nice. We're getting Barnes to Shrewsbu

 

[NotATrainspott]

In the end you can keep anything in service as long as you like (though it does tend to start looking like Grandma's old broom which has had 20 new heads and 15 new handles but is still the same broom). It's just when it starts being cheaper or otherwise better to build new.

I've mentioned Land Rovers, as those are a good example - most cars are kept on the road about 10 years as they become uneconomic to repair, but because Land Rovers tend to be cherished people repair them regardless of cost and so there are plenty of 30+ year old examples about - but with a lot of new parts and often new major components like chassis and rebuilt engines (on which the block is possibly the only original component).

As others have said though, it's far easier to keep an old train going than a new one. Most of the parts on a 313 could be machined from scratch by a competent workshop somewhere, even if the original plans had been lost. On a 323 though much more of the important bits consist of discrete components which had a limited production run and are now totally obsolete. New replacement parts would have an extremely high unit cost even if the plans were available. It's an economic decision which has to be made and building new trains to replace them may well be more economic. This is especially so if the new trains could be reliable enough to allow a much higher fleet utilisation, which is really key for many electrified routes today where depot space is at a premium.

 

[ChrisHogan]

You will probably find that the West Midlands in rail terms is larger than you think.

West Midlands Trains (the body responsible for rail tansport in the West Midlands) consists of the following councils:
Full Members: Birmingham; Coventry; Dudley; Herefordshire; Northamptonshire; Sandwell; Solihull; Shropshire; Staffordshire; Telford and Wrekin; Walsall; Warwickshire; Wolverhampton; Worcestershire. Associate Members: Cheshire East and Stoke on Trent.
see http://www.westmidlandsrail.com/ for further details

Not quite:

West Midlands Trains Ltd will be the TOC owned by Abellio

It will have two business units:
WCBU trading as "wmtrains" for the London and Liverpool services

WMBU trading as West Midland (singular) Railway or WMR for the West Midlands local services. The latter is overseen by a West Midlands Rail, the local authority body comprising councils in the 'Greater West Midlands'.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Anecdotally, there is certainly local demand in that people say that they want it, but the big question is would those people actually use it if it was reinstated?

The two are quite different.

I personally have no particular desire to go to Walsall, by any means.

Last time it was tried, via the direct route, a Class 153 was excessive. The parallel 529 bus route runs at frequencies that would impossible to replicate without more infrastructure at Wolverhampton. It only makes sense if intermediate stations (Darlaston James Bridge, Willenhall and Portobello are the suggestions) are built.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Cheshire East and Stoke are associate members because they are full members of Rail North. Given the LM franchise provides the only services to Winsford, Hartford and Acton Bridge stations, I'm surprised Cheshire West council are not also an associate member.

The reason for that is that Winsford, Hartford and Acton Bridge will only be served by wmtrains (WCBU) and West Midlands Rail (the local authority body) only has oversight of WMBU services. Cheshire East and Stoke were invited to become associate members of West Midlands Rail because of the BNS-Stoke-Crewe service being introduced in December 2018.