Abellio wins West Midlands franchise

[The Planner]

So XC aspirations to run both Reading services via Coventry have to fall as I expected. One would hope the local fits otherwise whats the point of the station.

Its common knowledge that the XC cannot go along there without a timetable change along the Coventry corridor and its redoubled between Kenilworth and Leamington, this franchise doesn't change that. The local is easier as its more contained and has a timetabled slot already.

 

[sjoh]

Am i right in thinking a bay platform is being constructed at Cov? What's the point of it if the Leamington/Nuneaton service is supposed to run through Coventry? Is it to take an existing terminator off the slow south platforms? I wouldn't have thought anything would be allowed to sit around on them for too long anyway?

 

[nuneatonmark]

Am i right in thinking a bay platform is being constructed at Cov? What's the point of it if the Leamington/Nuneaton service is supposed to run through Coventry? Is it to take an existing terminator off the slow south platforms? I wouldn't have thought anything would be allowed to sit around on them for too long anyway?

Yes a bay platform is planned, no firm date yet so could be years away. When they opened the Coventry Arena, the councilor said to me 2017 which I never believed as they have missed every single date for the Nuckle project multiple times. However, there is no intention to run a through Nuneaton to Leamington service, the Kenilworth service will be a shuttle from Coventry to Leamington due to conflicts at Coventry. The Nuneaton to Coventry service is also planned to run more than once per hour eventually whereas the Kenilworth service will only be once per hour. It's a missed opportunity though not being able to run a through service, it would be be very useful.

 

[pemma]

According to the BBC May to visit Canada to talk to Canadian PM Justin Trudeau and one of the items on the agenda is a trade dispute involving Canadian firm Bombardier. I'm sure Bombardier Derby won't like the BBC calling them a Canadian firm when a train order is about to be announced!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Assuming they are Aventras (though this is in my view very, very likely - logically if replacing 350/2s they should be exactly the same as the East Anglia order)

 

[pemma]

Assuming they are Aventras (though this is in my view very, very likely - logically if replacing 350/2s they should be exactly the same as the East Anglia order)

I wasn't meaning Bombardier are set to be announced as winner. I was meaning they'll want to do their usual "Great for British business" release if they win an order or "Bad for British business" release if CAF/Siemens/Stadler/Alstom etc. win

 

[47802]

I wasn't meaning Bombardier are set to be announced as winner. I was meaning they'll want to do their usual "Great for British business" release if they win an order or "Bad for British business" release if CAF/Siemens/Stadler/Alstom etc. win

Well to be fair any manufacturer is likely to express disappointment at not winning an order if they want to play the British card then so be it, if the order goes to CAF with a UK assembly plant then we will get the usual bull**** from the government but if in the long term all it does it take orders and jobs away from Bombardier UK or Hitachi UK then its not exactly a Win Win.

 

[pemma]

Well to be fair any manufacturer is likely to express disappointment at not winning an order if they want to play the British card then so be it, if the order goes to CAF with a UK assembly plant then we will get the usual bull**** from the government but if in the long term all it does it take orders and jobs away from Bombardier or Hitachi UK then its not exactly a Win Win.

Unless Bombardier or Hitachi have come up with a new self-powered train design for local routes on the British network, then part of the West Midlands order will be going abroad unless it goes to a foreign manufacturer planning to utilise a new UK plant.

 

[Domh245]

According to the BBC May to visit Canada to talk to Canadian PM Justin Trudeau and one of the items on the agenda is a trade dispute involving Canadian firm Bombardier. I'm sure Bombardier Derby won't like the BBC calling them a Canadian firm when a train order is about to be announced!

I would have thought that this dispute is related to the US and the Bombardier C-Series Jets, parts of which are produced in Belfast.

 

[pemma]

I would have thought that this dispute is related to the US and the Bombardier C-Series Jets, parts of which are produced in Belfast.

It is but mentioning Bombardier being Canadian might not go down well in Derby at the current time.

 

[47802]

Unless Bombardier or Hitachi have come up with a new self-powered train design for local routes on the British network, then part of the West Midlands order will be going abroad unless it goes to a foreign manufacturer planning to utilise a new UK plant.

Well that is true but its a relatively small order for the DMU's if in the long term it takes bigger orders that Bombardier and Hitachi can do and results in job losses or closure at those plants then the UK isn't gaining a lot. Of course you would hope that Bombardier have or are reviewing their positon re Diesels/Bi-modes, or maybe Bombardier are prepared to risk taking the hit until the bulk of DMU replacement is due in the next decade.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

According to the BBC May to visit Canada to talk to Canadian PM Justin Trudeau and one of the items on the agenda is a trade dispute involving Canadian firm Bombardier. I'm sure Bombardier Derby won't like the BBC calling them a Canadian firm when a train order is about to be announced!

It was worse than that, the Beeb called Bombardier a "Canadian aerospace company".

When the Bombardier-Siemens transportation deal is done, it will get even harder to work out who (ie which country) is building what.
We could actually get Desiros manufactured in Germany, marketed and supported by Derby, if Bombardier leads the joint venture.
Speculation of course, but that's what happened when Bombardier acquired ADtranz (eg with the 22x series).

 

[Bletchleyite]

An interesting question will be which platform (Aventra or Desiro) survives for the UK - I doubt there will be room for both in the joint venture.

 

[sk688]

An interesting question will be which platform (Aventra or Desiro) survives for the UK - I doubt there will be room for both in the joint venture.

The desiro city line hasn’t gone down that well , especially with the troublesome 700s , so I’m guessing that it will be the Aventras that stay

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The desiro city line hasn’t gone down that well , especially with the troublesome 700s , so I’m guessing that it will be the Aventras that stay

The bigger picture is that Desiros are popular all over Europe.
What happens in the UK is not the major factor in the merger of technologies and platforms.
Siemens main future interest, I believe, is in the traction packages, not the vehicles themselves.
Aventras haven't been around long enough yet to have a track record, anyway.

 

[Emblematic]

The desiro city line hasn’t gone down that well , especially with the troublesome 700s , so I’m guessing that it will be the Aventras that stay

With the volume of orders coming in, I think they will keep both lines running for the medium term - discontinuing one just makes it easier for competitors to get a foothold. Over time they will rationalise components, designs and production sites, but we'll probably only see full convergence in the next generation of units. If conditions change and orders collapse, it could happen much faster.

 

[Wolfie]

With the volume of orders coming in, I think they will keep both lines running for the medium term - discontinuing one just makes it easier for competitors to get a foothold. Over time they will rationalise components, designs and production sites, but we'll probably only see full convergence in the next generation of units. If conditions change and orders collapse, it could happen much faster.

I think, at least until current orders are met, you are absolutely right.

Must say I have always thought of Turbostar being just 170s but I seem to have been a bit off the mark there!

Nope, it is a generic name, as is Electrostar...

 

[hwl]

The bigger picture is that Desiros are popular all over Europe.
What happens in the UK is not the major factor in the merger of technologies and platforms.
Siemens main future interest, I believe, is in the traction packages, not the vehicles themselves.
Aventras haven't been around long enough yet to have a track record, anyway.

Desiros haven't been winning that many orders on the continent lately compared to their competitors.

 

[pemma]

I don't know how accurate this is but a LM ticket office clerk says he's heard subject to the new operator securing the relevant financing the new cross-city trains will be an updated version of trains used on Crossrail, the new WCML trains will be the same as TPE are getting for Scottish services (397s?) and the new Snow Hill trains will be like the ones Northern are getting (195s?)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't know how accurate this is but a LM ticket office clerk says he's heard subject to the new operator securing the relevant financing the new cross-city trains will be an updated version of trains used on Crossrail, the new WCML trains will be the same as TPE are getting for Scottish services (397s?) and the new Snow Hill trains will be like the ones Northern are getting (195s?)

I would be very, very surprised if 2+2-seated end-doored EMUs were ordered for the Euston suburban services, much as such a purchase would convert me to son-of-LM for long distance travel, particularly if First Class is 2+1 and reasonably priced.

It'll be 5x24m Aventras with the same 3+2 layout as the Anglia ones, I'd put my money on it. So far as 3+2 seated suburban EMUs go they do look nice, but I ain't going to Crewe on one.

 

[pemma]

I would be very, very surprised if 2+2-seated end-doored EMUs were ordered for the Euston suburban services, much as such a purchase would convert me to son-of-LM for long distance travel, particularly if First Class is 2+1 and reasonably priced.

It'll be 5x24m Aventras with the same 3+2 layout as the Anglia ones, I'd put my money on it. So far as 3+2 seated suburban EMUs go they do look nice, but I ain't going to Crewe on one.

Would the Anglia Aventras get cleared for 110mph running? I'm sure CAF could do a 331 style door layout on a 397 carriage if a TOC wanted it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would the Anglia Aventras get cleared for 110mph running?

Given how simple the mods were on the 350s I expect a 110mph version will be easy. But if they're just doing Euston suburbans (i.e. not running north of Northampton nor on the fast lines) they don't need 110mph anyway. High acceleration would be the priority provided they can do 100mph. Tring stoppers and MKC semifasts don't get to do 110mph anyway.

OK, 350/2s end up on Crewe services from time to time, but with a vastly different fleet I'd expect us to see less of that.

I'm sure CAF could do a 331 style door layout on a 397 carriage if a TOC wanted it.

Er, the EMUs Northern are ordering, basically.

 

[wipers]

Agree with others that we'll see an AVENTRA order here. I also think it will be the AVENTRA that is chosen for the new c2c trains/carriages, where I thought we'd have had an announcement by now. On the manufacturing side, it'll be interesting to see what CAF does with their Newport plant and whether it will be used for existing orders or those yet to be announced...

 

[pemma]

Er, the EMUs Northern are ordering, basically.

331s will be 100mph capable, 397s will be 125mph capable but probably won't be able to do 125mph on the WCML.

 

[100andthirty]

Has the contract between DfT and the Abellio consortium actually been signed yet?

 

[Bletchleyite]

331s will be 100mph capable, 397s will be 125mph capable but probably won't be able to do 125mph on the WCML.

The slows are max 100mph.

 

[86211]

Has the contract between DfT and the Abellio consortium actually been signed yet?

The contract was signed on Wednesday 13 September.

 

[DenmarkRail]

I PERSONALLY would rather see Desiros stay, over the Aventras...

I think they work better, look more presentable, and operate to a much bigger market across Europe.

 

[Darkinsider]

deleted

 

[HLE]

Am i right in thinking a bay platform is being constructed at Cov? What's the point of it if the Leamington/Nuneaton service is supposed to run through Coventry? Is it to take an existing terminator off the slow south platforms? I wouldn't have thought anything would be allowed to sit around on them for too long anyway?

It isn't going to be a through service, it will be two shuttles independent of each other