Abellio wins West Midlands franchise

[Domh245]

Im suprised that Abellio have got away with that small panel of Yellow, the class 350 as far as im aware does not meet the current regs to bypass the Yellow Warning Panel and that does not appear to be a sufficient area by only covering the walkthrough door. Im sure they would have done their homework but seeing first hand how Abellio have handled other franchise’s it wouldnt suprise me if this colour scheme will have to be modified... Also the Doors seem to blend in with the rest of the Bodyshell which always used to be frowned upon for Disabled Access reasons

The requirements are a minimum of 1m^2, and a minimum dimension of 0.6m, comfortably met by the gangway door.

I'd disagree about the doors though, they look like they stand out sufficiently to me.

 

[pt_mad]

I agree the branding isn't the best. For me the similarity between West Midlands Trains and West Midlands Railway will cause confusion. Especially if you have a 350 on the WSL-WVH running a service for West Midlands Rail, by West Midlands Trains in a London Northwestern liveried train.

Re the branding.

I think it must be that the reason they are printing tickets 'wmtrains only' is because they used to sell such tickets as Sutton Coldfield/Lichfield City - London Euston (London Midland only).

So to continue to sell these discounted operator only tickets they would logically have to put route 'wmtrains only'. As it would be difficult to print 'West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Only'

 

[pt_mad]

Would this variant meet the requirements for enough yellow?

 

[JordyWM]

Re the branding.

I think it must be that the reason they are printing tickets 'wmtrains only' is because they used to sell such tickets as Sutton Coldfield/Lichfield City - London Euston (London Midland only).

So to continue to sell these discounted operator only tickets they would logically have to put route 'wmtrains only'. As it would be difficult to print 'West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Only'

It’s this sort of thing that makes it a mess. When you have a train with ‘West Midlands Railway’ operated by ‘West Midlands Trains’, then a ticket with wmtrains, how does that even help anyone?

wmtrains looks as different from West Midlands Trains than it does West Midlands Railway.

They should have just stuck with wmtrains for the whole brand, that way it includes it’s franchise area, but doesn’t exclude Londoners because it just says WM and not West Midlands specifically. But I know WMCA want control over the WMR part.

 

[12guard4]

Re the branding.

I think it must be that the reason they are printing tickets 'wmtrains only' is because they used to sell such tickets as Sutton Coldfield/Lichfield City - London Euston (London Midland only).

So to continue to sell these discounted operator only tickets they would logically have to put route 'wmtrains only'. As it would be difficult to print 'West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Only'

In my opinion I think most passengers will see wmtrains on a ticket and assume it means West Midlands Rail services. Guard on London Northwestern should be prepared for a barrage of can I use this ticket on this train questions.

 

[BucksBones]

It’s this sort of thing that makes it a mess. When you have a train with ‘West Midlands Railway’ operated by ‘West Midlands Trains’, then a ticket with wmtrains, how does that even help anyone?

wmtrains looks as different from West Midlands Trains than it does West Midlands Railway.

It's ridiculous; passengers who require an operator-specific ticket for the services formerly operated by London Midland now have to buy a ticket that is known on the ticket apps as "West Midlands trains only" and physically printed with "wmtrains only", to travel on a train operated by - London Northwestern Railway! I don't believe it's an exaggeration to say that this is guaranteed to confuse the vast majority of passengers.

Also, I thought the idea of having these two separate entities was to have more local control. The WCML south is suffering from delays and cancellations due to a broken down train today, and the only announcements are about how this is affecting the route between Northampton and Birmingham, obviously being broadcast from an office in Birmingham.

The whole thing is a total disgrace IMHO.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They managed route CENTRAL+SILVERLK in the past. They could easily put route WESTMID+LNDNNWEST in there, with it spelt out longhand on new format tickets.

The passengers have no need to know "West Midlands Trains" or "wmtrains" even exists. GTR have multiple brands and there is no reason WMT need to make that public any more than GTR do.

I get the feeling that the new CEO is going to learn a hard lesson about how much more complicated it all is than a yellow and grey textbook S-Bahn up north

 

[XCTurbostar]

They could easily put route WESTMID+LNDNNWEST in there, with it spelt out longhand on new format tickets.

The passengers have no need to know "West Midlands Trains" or "wmtrains" even exists. GTR have multiple brands and there is no reason WMT need to make that public any more than GTR do.

I agree entirely. All wmtrains is is another name which passengers can get confused by.

 

[sprinterguy]

Would this variant meet the requirements for enough yellow?

Via the highly unscientific method of taking a ruler to the screen, it seems it would meet the minimum dimension. If various iterations of the class 59 fleet can get away with just their yellow bufferbeams, then I can't see how it wouldn't be enough.

 

[nbdm]

Found this with regard to stations, this company seem to manage the parking for wmtrains' stations.
However, what is interesting is that Indigo seem to differentiate between West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railway on a per station basis whereas I am not sure if anything else does (Wikipedia certainly doesn't)
I haven't been to a station since the new franchise begun so am unsure of the branding used.
Is it all 'wmtrains'/West Midlands Trains, or is it in the respective brands of each of the services?

I agree with the sentiment that there are too many names and they are too similar.

 

[XCTurbostar]

The franchise needs to get a grip with these names because they need to decide if its staying as one franchise or operating as two.

 

[brick60000]

They managed route CENTRAL+SILVERLK in the past. They could easily put route WESTMID+LNDNNWEST in there, with it spelt out longhand on new format tickets.

Or why not even route WMR+LNR? Seems an obvious abbreviation they've missed, and 1 less character than 'wmtrains'!

On a side note, they were announcing London Northwestern Railway as LNR at Stafford yesterday.

 

[sufian123]

This franchise is confusing. RTT classes it as West Midlands trains and NRE as West Midlands railway for everything. PIS as West Midlands railway and London north western. This will cos so many confusion. What is going on?

 

[ji459]

It would not surprise me at all if it were the politicians at "West Midlands Rail" who insisted on having a specific brand for the services in their area - West Midlands Railway

 

[DarloRich]

Day three on the Vale: ON TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( main line late )

PS - there seemed to be 2 150's and 3 x 153's at Bletchley this morning. Nothing like service resilience. I knew our new Dutch overlords would sort things out. Now, where is that paint brush

 

[sprinterguy]

PS - there seemed to be 2 150's and 3 x 153's at Bletchley this morning. Nothing like service resilience. I knew our new Dutch overlords would sort things out. Now, where is that paint brush

A whole SEVEN carriages? A veritable abundance of stock - Now there's a tangible benefit of the franchise you can actually point to! Though I hope you'll be writing a sternly worded letter to your local MP demanding to know why they're still painted green, such tardiness with the paint brush cannot be allowed.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

On a side note, they were announcing London Northwestern Railway as LNR at Stafford yesterday.

There's something not right about the abbreviation "LNR", or the TOC code of "LN".
It sounds as though the TOC should be operating out of King's Cross or Liverpool St.
What's wrong with "LNWR" and "NW"?

 

[DarloRich]

A whole SEVEN carriages? A veritable abundance of stock - Now there's a tangible benefit of the franchise you can actually point to! Though I hope you'll be writing a sternly worded letter to your local MP demanding to know why they're still painted green, such tardiness with the paint brush cannot be allowed.

it is appalling. 4 days and only running on three of them. Just wha tare they playing at?

I have a horrible fear that i will get to Bletchley this evening to find not one of the carriages in service!

 

[centraltrains]

There's something not right about the abbreviation "LNR", or the TOC code of "LN".
It sounds as though the TOC should be operating out of King's Cross or Liverpool St.
What's wrong with "LNWR" and "NW"?

Are you thinking of eastern? Struggling to understand...

 

[JordyWM]

There's something not right about the abbreviation "LNR", or the TOC code of "LN".
It sounds as though the TOC should be operating out of King's Cross or Liverpool St.
What's wrong with "LNWR" and "NW"?

Couldn’t they use LNW? Or do they insist on having to have the word railway? LM didn’t need the word railway.

 

[ag51ruk]

There's something not right about the abbreviation "LNR", or the TOC code of "LN".
It sounds as though the TOC should be operating out of King's Cross or Liverpool St.
What's wrong with "LNWR" and "NW"?

Couldn’t they use LNW? Or do they insist on having to have the word railway? LM didn’t need the word railway.

NWR is a common abbreviation for Network Rail, and LNW is the abbreviation for the London North Western Route of Network Rail - so it may be to avoid any confusion with those (although the same could be said for LNR)

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Never mind branding - how about a decent service on the Abbey Branch - constant failures of the 319 set , no service on Monday due to crew issues (OK - heavy snow and freezing) - getting to be a lottery when it actually runs. !

 

[dvboy]

Found this with regard to stations, this company seem to manage the parking for wmtrains' stations.
However, what is interesting is that Indigo seem to differentiate between West Midlands Railway and London Northwestern Railway on a per station basis whereas I am not sure if anything else does (Wikipedia certainly doesn't)
I haven't been to a station since the new franchise begun so am unsure of the branding used.
Is it all 'wmtrains'/West Midlands Trains, or is it in the respective brands of each of the services?

I agree with the sentiment that there are too many names and they are too similar.

Apparently Indigo no longer manage parking at Bromsgrove which a colleague of mine found out today when they tried to pay for their parking and couldn't. None of the WMR or National Rail websites had been updated with the new operator.

 

[pt_mad]

Or why not even route WMR+LNR? Seems an obvious abbreviation they've missed, and 1 less character than 'wmtrains'!

On a side note, they were announcing London Northwestern Railway as LNR at Stafford yesterday.

Excellent suggestion putting route 'WMR+LNR' or the other longer suggestion earlier. ('WESTMID+LNDNNWEST')

Perhaps someone should tweet the TOC with these suggestions?

 

[pt_mad]

This franchise is confusing. RTT classes it as West Midlands trains and NRE as West Midlands railway for everything. PIS as West Midlands railway and London north western. This will cos so many confusion. What is going on?

Apparently whoever was awarded the West Midlands franchise was given a whole year by DFT from the start of operation to split off into two brands. This obviously would allow time to eradicate any teething problems and find solutions to any issues.

So obviously it probably wasn't expected to be without issue or the DFT wouldn't have given them a year to implement the brand split.

As for potentially using LNW, it does seem to make more sense them using LNR as Northwestern is one word on their branding. Also the confusion with the London Northwestern Network Rail route, which is referred to on open train times maps section.

Also yes it seems the Wmtrains want the word Railway as a full part of the branding.


A poster further up said they thought there was going to be more local control, and they've seen none down south. I think the local control is going to be more on the West Midlands Railway, with local authority input, not on the WCML part of the franchise.

Regarding people saying service suffering on the Marston Vale line, WCML south etc, no TOC is going to solve all the problems in a day, a week, a month, or 6 months. Apparently it's a full year until they recast a full timetable and lengthen trains etc. Also, they have no new trains yet. And obviously that is gonna take years.

Also, the infrastructure will be as it is for whatever TOC operates. Someone said there was level crossing problems on one of the branches off the WCML. The TOC is not likely to be able to sort this.

 

[DarloRich]

They should have just stuck with wmtrains for the whole brand, that way it includes it’s franchise area, but doesn’t exclude Londoners because it just says WM and not West Midlands specifically. But I know WMCA want control over the WMR part.

Regardless of initials I am not sure Bletchley is in the West Midlands......................................

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regardless of initials I am not sure Bletchley is in the West Midlands......................................

Nor is St Pancras in the East Midlands

 

[700007]

I have faith that LNWR would continue London Midland's legacy. I am very interested in seeing their schedule for when the whole Staffordshire stuff changes about. The Abbey line has been suffering all week, I can agree about that - cancellations all or half of the day due to staff shortage. Hopefully this is fixed.

In terms of the branding issue, couldn't wmtrains use that name/identity for the LNWR stuff? But that said it would then cause confusion with WMR? But that confusion oddly could do good as the public is likely to just think they're the same TOC which is right of them to do because of the 'West Midlands' bit in them.....

....The mind works in weird ways, so it's all down to interpretation.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

On the issue of the branding, even people in the industry are confused.

The announcer at Wolverhampton (VT) had difficulty the other day, it sounded something like this:

"The train at platform 4 is the XX:XX London Mid... West M... London West... is the XX:XX service to Birmingham New Street"

A guard on a service between Birmingham and Shrewsbury last night flubbed it in a similar fashion.

 

[sufian123]

Apparently whoever was awarded the West Midlands franchise was given a whole year by DFT from the start of operation to split off into two brands. This obviously would allow time to eradicate any teething problems and find solutions to any issues.

So obviously it probably wasn't expected to be without issue or the DFT wouldn't have given them a year to implement the brand split.

As for potentially using LNW, it does seem to make more sense them using LNR as Northwestern is one word on their branding. Also the confusion with the London Northwestern Network Rail route, which is referred to on open train times maps section.

Also yes it seems the Wmtrains want the word Railway as a full part of the branding.


A poster further up said they thought there was going to be more local control, and they've seen none down south. I think the local control is going to be more on the West Midlands Railway, with local authority input, not on the WCML part of the franchise.

Regarding people saying service suffering on the Marston Vale line, WCML south etc, no TOC is going to solve all the problems in a day, a week, a month, or 6 months. Apparently it's a full year until they recast a full timetable and lengthen trains etc. Also, they have no new trains yet. And obviously that is gonna take years.

Also, the infrastructure will be as it is for whatever TOC operates. Someone said there was level crossing problems on one of the branches off the WCML. The TOC is not likely to be able to sort this.

Thanks. This is going to be really interesting. Sometime I wish they sticked to one name