about SNCB M7

Stephen Lee

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7 Jul 2019
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446
I wondered if they are already on rev. service, looks like the coaches are but NOT the motor coach.......
Also, if I'm right, M7 can be coupled to I10/I11/M6 when extra capacity is needed...
 
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hexagon789

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I wondered if they are already on rev. service, looks like the coaches are but NOT the motor coach.......
Also, if I'm right, M7 can be coupled to I10/I11/M6 when extra capacity is needed...
Compatible with M4, M6, I10 and I11

They entered service from last January, but I believe that interfere issues continue to restrict use - a maximum of 4 per set are presently permitted. Most seem to be mixed into sets with M4 or I11 cars.
 

HSTEd

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14 Jul 2011
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I'm somewhat struggling to understand how these sets function, from what I can tell they seem almost to be like 4REP/TC style combinations of trailer and motor vehicles, but that can be chopped and changed for operational reasons, as they are all "MUs"

Is that about right?
 

hexagon789

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I'm somewhat struggling to understand how these sets function, from what I can tell they seem almost to be like 4REP/TC style combinations of trailer and motor vehicles, but that can be chopped and changed for operational reasons, as they are all "MUs"

Is that about right?
More the other way round - they are loco-hauled coaches that can run as conventional push-pull loco-hauled sets alone or with other carriage types OR they can run with their own design motor car instead of a locomotive.
 

gysev

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23 Dec 2016
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Belgium
All IC-trains between Oostende and Eupen (hourly service) have 4 M7 coaches in the consist. They are at the front when running to Oostende (behind the locomotive - see picture). As for the motor coaches: instruction for the drivers at Gent and Hasselt will commence in june. They will be used first on the Gent - Brussels - Hasselt - Tongeren trains.
 

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MarcVD

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23 Aug 2016
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Apparently the introduction of M7 power coaches foreseen for June this year is delayed till September, reasons unknown.

M7 stock uses the standard mux protocol used by all belgian equipment nowadays so the can be mixed together with I6, I10, I11, M4, and M6 cars, and with HLE 13, 18, and probably even 27 too, even if all those combinations haven't been tested, and won't be used. MUing an M7 motor coach and an HLE 18 has been tested and works perfectly. M7 motor coaches can sit some 50 people and has 3000 kW of power, which should be enough to move a 4 car train @200 km/h or a 6 car train @160 km/h.
 

btrs

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24 Jan 2009
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8
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Belgium
IMHO M7 motor coaches will be a big failure. They should have adopted the SBB Twindexx concept with variable length sets: an IR100 and an IC200. Those are real high-performance double deck Intercity EMU's, not this outdated motor-car concept. And no, KISS (Westbahn+DB operate them in "Intercity-like" configuration) also fail to qualify in this department for me: these are just regional trainsets fitted with some more upholstered regional seats..
 

MarcVD

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23 Aug 2016
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If the M7 are a big failure as you predict, then SNCB will be in dire trouble as they are more or less betting the farm on them, having not ordered any other motive power while HLE 21 and 27 are expected to be withdrawn in the next few years.
 

43096

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If the M7 are a big failure as you predict, then SNCB will be in dire trouble as they are more or less betting the farm on them, having not ordered any other motive power while HLE 21 and 27 are expected to be withdrawn in the next few years.
It should be pointed out that the SBB Twindexx sets referenced by “btrs” aren’t exactly a great example. Years late in delivery and chronically unreliable, too - is that what Belgium was after!?
 

Bikeman78

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26 Apr 2018
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Apparently the introduction of M7 power coaches foreseen for June this year is delayed till September, reasons unknown.

M7 stock uses the standard mux protocol used by all belgian equipment nowadays so the can be mixed together with I6, I10, I11, M4, and M6 cars, and with HLE 13, 18, and probably even 27 too, even if all those combinations haven't been tested, and won't be used. MUing an M7 motor coach and an HLE 18 has been tested and works perfectly. M7 motor coaches can sit some 50 people and has 3000 kW of power, which should be enough to move a 4 car train @200 km/h or a 6 car train @160 km/h.
What is being replaced by the M7 carriages? I'm guessing all the M4 loco hauled stock and the remaining 1966-1979 two car EMUs. What about the M5 double decker carriages?
 

MarcVD

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23 Aug 2016
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773
M5 have been recently refurbished so are probably good for another 5 years at least. M4 istock s already on the way out, some batches of cars have been demolished already. The remaining two cars EMUs of course. All HLE 21. Then the bets are open as to what will follow next. Probably a mix of everything that is not equipped with ETCS, as it will be mandatory by law in Belgium for end 2025. The M7 frame agreement covers some 1300 cars in total. That's enough to replace all I6, I10, M4, M5 cars, and all old EMUs. My bet is that the last that will survive are the AM80 (breaks).
 

Bikeman78

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M5 have been recently refurbished so are probably good for another 5 years at least. M4 istock s already on the way out, some batches of cars have been demolished already. The remaining two cars EMUs of course. All HLE 21. Then the bets are open as to what will follow next. Probably a mix of everything that is not equipped with ETCS, as it will be mandatory by law in Belgium for end 2025. The M7 frame agreement covers some 1300 cars in total. That's enough to replace all I6, I10, M4, M5 cars, and all old EMUs. My bet is that the last that will survive are the AM80 (breaks).
I'm very surprised that the AM75 units are being completely rebuilt. They are 45 years old and have the same electrical equipment as the later series of two car units that have already been refurbished.
 

MarcVD

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23 Aug 2016
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773
I'm very surprised that the AM75 units are being completely rebuilt. They are 45 years old and have the same electrical equipment as the later series of two car units that have already been refurbished.
People working in the SNCB workshops have civil servant status and can therefore not be laid off. With the advent of modern rolling stock, the need for periodic inspections has been largely reduced, to the point that those people would be without any work if those refurbishments did not take place. In other words, those refurbishments are made not because they make sense, but to keep people in the workshops busy.
 

Bikeman78

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People working in the SNCB workshops have civil servant status and can therefore not be laid off. With the advent of modern rolling stock, the need for periodic inspections has been largely reduced, to the point that those people would be without any work if those refurbishments did not take place. In other words, those refurbishments are made not because they make sense, but to keep people in the workshops busy.
Thanks, that explains a lot.
 

MarcVD

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23 Aug 2016
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773
An M7 formation of 6 cars (one Bmx motor car, 2 B and 2 AB cars, and one BDx driving trailer) ran for the first tme in revenue service today. Only one return trip, rush hour service. This test will be till end of September. Then if conclusive, M7 sets will start operating the hourly service between Tongeren and Gent.
 

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