Advance availability issue

[Goatboy]

I am having trouble booking a Sailrail Advance from Great Malvern to Dublin Port (Stena).

There appear to be no advance fares for the route I want after the 22nd December - they are available before this, but not after.

The suggested route, and my preferred route, is as follows:

08:05 Great Malvern to Birmingham New Street (London Midland)
09:36 Birmingham New Street to Crewe (London Midland)
10:49 Crewe to Holyhead (Virgin Trains)

I have been trying for over a week now thinking that perhaps the allocations were simply not available for an Advance yet. Then I discovered that if I manually force the booking engine to route via Hereford, I get the following itinerary for which an Advance *is* offered, on the same days (Pretty much any weekday after 22nd December):

07:59 GMV to Hereford (London Midland)
09:08 Hereford to Crewe (Arriva Trains Wales)
10:49 Crewe to Holyhead (Virgin Trains)

There are no unique operators in the preferred route that would account for a lack of advance availability. It isn't because Virgin are not taking reservations due to the engineering works on the WCML as the same VT service features in both itineraries.

So, I'm a bit confused really. Why can't I buy a Sailrail Advance on the preferred route? If I put in a date earlier than 22nd December, the Advance is available with no issues. Even for next week.

Any advice would be well received, thanks!

 

[Paul Kelly]

Well the obvious thing to check is the Birmingham to Crewe London Midland service - perhaps it hasn't opened for reservations yet?

 

[Goatboy]

Good spot.

Just checked - there are two trains from Birmingham New Street to Crewe within 15 minutes of each other. The first is the 09:20 VT service, the second is the London Midland service.

Advance tickets are showing for the VT service but not for the LM service. They can't have sold out already this far ahead so presumably there is no allocation - is this a 'yet' or 'ever' thing? Seems odd, I thought reservations opened on an entire-TOC basis?

I'd actually prefer the VT service but the official change time at New Street is 12 minutes and the VT service leaves 8 minutes after I'd get in, hence it's not offered.

Might just pay the extra fiver for the non-advance and try and make the VT service. 8 minutes should be dooable.

 

[island]

Which site are you using?

 

[Paul Kelly]

Seems odd, I thought reservations opened on an entire-TOC basis?

I believe it's a manual process, i.e. "somebody from each TOC sits down one morning per week and opens reservations for all trains in the week 12 weeks from now" sort of thing. It's well known that reservations for weekend services are often opened a little bit after the weekday services on either side of a given weekend.

Perhaps LM have avoided opening reservations here as they haven't decided how much quota for their own advance fares they are going to allow on these services. Your SailRail ticket will likely not be quota controlled on this service anyway, so its a bit of an unfortunate side effect that you have to wait.

 

[Goatboy]

Which site are you using?

Sadly, thetrainline as almost nobody else appears to retail SailRail tickets.

 

[87015]

LM have declared themselves as 100% open for reservations on that week, so if its not there now don't bet on it appearing later!

 

[Paul Kelly]

If they're not going to offer any advances on that service then they shouldn't have it marked in the timetable as reservable, as booking engines have to hold off booking "&connections" legs of advances and SailRail advances on such trains, in case they theoretically might open for reservations in future and have a block on certain ticket types on them. Maybe somebody should ask London Midland about this.

The other possibility is that it is open for reservations but is not allowing any ticket types to be booked on it. That seems a bit less likely though.

 

[Goatboy]

Is there a reason why they would decide not to offer that train as reservable at all?

It's not the end of the world as it's only an extra fiver (which would mean I could try for that VT service) but it's interesting nonetheless.

 

[MKD]

Sadly, thetrainline as almost nobody else appears to retail SailRail tickets.

Others definitely sell them as I won't deal with thetrainline and bought tickets for last December though cant recall now where (probably Southern with a 6% TopCashBack). I do recall however that availability/timing to book was very confusing.

As I understand it ArrivaTrainsWales take the lead on SailRail and their website is the abysmal effort I'd expect based on previous attempts to understand anything about their "service":
eg
http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/SailRail/FAQs/
explicitly states today at the top of the FAQs
"When can I buy tickets?
"SailRail Ferry reservations to Ireland are open until 15 / 09 / 2012."

I also found Seat61 very helpful about the what/where
http://www.seat61.com/Ireland.htm

MKD

 

[Goatboy]

Southern just says 'No fares available' and only lets you select Dublin Port (Stena) as a destination anyway.

 

[MKD]

Have a go, via TopCashBack (3%), at Virgin Trains (and double Virgin airmiles at the moment I think) as their calendar is shaded for valid dates and I was just able to get it show as a random example for your route Jan 2 -> Jan 3.
It MIGHT be your issues are related to Xmas/NYear Engineering still hanging over some routes.
MKD

 

[Goatboy]

This Sailrail ticket really is the most complicated ticket in the world to buy. I've spent the last 30 minutes reading old threads on here about it and I'm getting so much conflicting information.

The clear bit is the Sailrail Advance. Booked trains only. Booked ferry only. Nice and simple.

More confusing is the Sailrail 'Standby'. Some threads on here suggest it is only available to purchase up to 18:00 on the day of travel. But thetrainline will happily sell me one now, months before travel.

Whats the actual deal here? On my outward trip as per this thread it seems I am forced to buy a Standby because the reservations are not open for that London Midland train. I guess thats fine.

But on the way back I specifically want a Standby because if I can make a 20 minute connection from ferry to train I can cut 2 hours off the journey. If I book Advance, I can't do this as its not a valid connection and I can't travel on anything but the booked train. So the Standby gives me a chance to see if I can make it.

But can I actually buy it? Why is this such a hard ticket to get concrete info on?

Thanks guys!

 

[wintonian]

Standby tickets use codes 6J & 6L for Irish ferries or 6S for Stena - 6I, 6K (Irish Ferries) & 6R (Stena) are for the advance fares.

You can look them up here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But on the way back I specifically want a Standby because if I can make a 20 minute connection from ferry to train I can cut 2 hours off the journey. If I book Advance, I can't do this as its not a valid connection and I can't travel on anything but the booked train. So the Standby gives me a chance to see if I can make it.

But can I actually buy it? Why is this such a hard ticket to get concrete info on?

Thanks guys!

The simplest way to this is to buy an advance single and then by a single back from a station (i.e. Connolly) in Eire, this will work out as the same cost as a return - allowing for the exchange rate of course).

 

[Goatboy]

I can only find 6K in that PDF - and it appears not to be for the advance as it makes no mention of reservations for the rail leg. However if it is for the Standby it seems to suggest I can buy it whenever I want?

I think one of the posts I found from last year saying that the Standby couldnt be purchased until the day of travel was from yourself - I'd appreciate any further opinion

The simplest way to this is to buy an advance single and then by a single back from a station (i.e. Connolly) in Eire, this will work out as the same cost as a return - allowing for the exchange rate of course).

Edit: Ah, you are suggesting I buy the outward ticket in the UK and then simply buy the ticket home when I get to Ireland? This will result in a free of reservations train leg - even if I buy the Advance? I'm a bit worried about doing that - what if I get there and there are no tickets left? I'll be stuck in Dublin!



So I need this ticket:

http://brfares.com/#faredetail?orig...&flow=0&multi=1&fare=0&rte=1004&ldn=0&tkt=SLD

Interestingly, reading:

http://brfares.com/#faredetail?orig...&flow=0&multi=1&fare=1&rte=1004&ldn=0&tkt=SLA

It says

Reservations are compulsory on
all legs.

Whereas a typical Advance rail ticket says:

Tickets are valid ONLY on the
date and train service(s)
shown on the ticket(s).

Which perhaps means I can use any train I want with a Sailrail Advance?

Sorry for the plethora of questions - I just want to make sure I'm absolutely clear about what I need to buy and when I can buy it
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
First Great Western come to the rescue, not only do they appear to allow purchase but they explain both types of ticket in great detail:

SAILRAIL ADVANCE
TICKET TYPE
SAILRAIL ADVANCE

DESCRIPTION
Non-refundable ticket, only valid for the date, time and trains specified.

VALIDITY
You must travel on the date, time and trains specified. You may not start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station except to change to/from connecting trains as shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary.

BOOKING
Can be booked up until the day before travel, subject to availability.

REFUNDS
No refunds available.

AMENDING YOUR BOOKING
Yes - date/time of tickets can be changed up until time of departure (except if you have chosen to print your own e-ticket(s) or have chosen for your ticket(s) to be delivered to your mobile phone) subject to the payment of a GBP 10.00 fee per ticket per person and any difference in fares. It is not possible to purchase a cheaper fare than the original, nor to change the origin or destination.

DISCOUNTS
Child discounts apply. No Railcard or Group discounts.

ROUTE
Only tickets routed HLYHEAD SWIFT will be valid on Irish Ferries Dublin Swift sailings.

Route
This ticket is only valid for routes passing through Holyhead and using Irish Ferries.

TICKET TYPE
SAILRAIL STANDBY

DESCRIPTION
A walk up ticket available for travel on the day of purchase, subject to availability.

VALIDITY
Your journey must be on the date, or in the case of overnight sailings, the day after the date, specified on the ticket.

BOOKING
Mandatory reservation on the ship but not required for rail travel.

REFUNDS
Refunds are available, subject to a GBP10.00 administration fee on unused tickets surrendered up to 28 days after expiry of the ticket. Tickets purchased in Ireland will not be refunded.

AMENDING YOUR BOOKING
Travel plans can be changed before the outward journey subject to a GBP10.00 administration fee.

DISCOUNTS
Child discounts apply. No Railcard or Group discounts.

BREAK OF JOURNEY
Not permitted unless for connectional purposes.

AVAILABILITY
Rail & Sail Anytime tickets are available for Standard Class travel only. Upgrades to First Class are not available. Weekend First supplements are not valid with Rail & Sail Anytime tickets.

ROUTE
Only tickets routed HLYHEAD SWIFT will be valid on Irish Ferries Dublin Swift sailings.

Route
This ticket is only valid for routes passing through Holyhead and using Irish Ferries.

Bold bits of interest.

So really the only mystery remaining is why I can't book onto that London Midland train
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Or not. Just got this error:

We have been unable to successfully validate your journey for the following reason:
E00202
No inventory found with Retail Service ID AW0057 on 01/01/2013

 

[island]

Irish Rail will issue tickets at the lower price which will not be tied to a train. You may have difficulty getting them accepted by LU if applicable though.

 

[Goatboy]

Nope, no LU required.

Am I not leaving it a bit to chance waiting until a few days before to buy from Irish Rail? I dont want to end up without the ability to do anything but buy an expensive walkon ferry ticket and seperate rail ticket.

 

[wintonian]

I can only find 6K in that PDF - and it appears not to be for the advance as it makes no mention of reservations for the rail leg. However if it is for the Standby it seems to suggest I can buy it whenever I want?

6K is incorrect and BoJ is prohibited and reservations are mandatory - this is the advance fare, the restriction shown at brfares.com is correct

6I, 6J 6K & 6L are for Irish Ferries

6C, 6D, 6S & 6R in the PDF (& brfares.com) refers to are for 'DUBLIN CITY' ✠HLYHD STENA CIV or ✠HOLYHD STENA SHP and appear to be valid on Irish Ferries (another mistake I assume)

6R & 6S are also for 'DUBLINPORT STENA'

Use brfares.com if they are missing from the PDF, which isn't always correct either.

I think one of the posts I found from last year saying that the Standby couldnt be purchased until the day of travel was from yourself - I'd appreciate any further opinion

Heres a thread from April that might help.

In that thread I concede that it is most likely that STNDBY tickets are available up-to and including the day of travel and not just the day of travel.

Edit: Ah, you are suggesting I buy the outward ticket in the UK and then simply buy the ticket home when I get to Ireland? This will result in a free of reservations train leg - even if I buy the Advance? I'm a bit worried about doing that - what if I get there and there are no tickets left? I'll be stuck in Dublin!

Yes I am suggesting buying your return ticket in Eire as they do not have the same restrictions (apart from which ferry you use) and you cannot make reservations with them. There is no advance or STNDBY tickets if buying in Eire as they are all the same.

Railsail tickets do not sell out - only in theory.

So I need this ticket:

http://brfares.com/#faredetail?orig...&flow=0&multi=1&fare=0&rte=1004&ldn=0&tkt=SLD

Interestingly, reading:

http://brfares.com/#faredetail?orig...&flow=0&multi=1&fare=1&rte=1004&ldn=0&tkt=SLA

It says



Whereas a typical Advance rail ticket says:



Which perhaps means I can use any train I want with a Sailrail Advance?

Sorry for the plethora of questions - I just want to make sure I'm absolutely clear about what I need to buy and when I can buy it

So your taking the Swift which as you have found has this restriction for the STNDBY ticket:

Restriction Code: 6J

Shipping Links Irish Ferries
Route 01004
Ticket type SLD

Outward Travel

Valid on date on ticket only.
Valid on Irish Ferries
services port to port only.
Reservations are compulsory on
the ship leg.
coupons.
No break of journey except for
connectional purposes.
No unaccompanied children
under sixteen permitted to
travel.

Return Travel

Valid on date on ticket only.
Valid on Irish Ferries
services port to port only.
Reservations are compulsory on
the ship leg.
Break of journey on rail leg
only.
No unaccompanied children
under sixteen permitted to
travel.
Break of journey permitted
where disruption to the ferry
service occurs.

6I for the avance says:

Restriction Code: 6I

Shipping Links 6I Irish
Ferries
Route 1004
Ticket type SLA

Outward Travel

Reservations are compulsory on
all legs.
Valid on date on ticket only.
Valid on Irish Ferries
No unaccompanied children
under sixteen.
No break of journey except for
connection purposes.

Return Travel

Reservations are compulsory on
all legs.
Valid on date on ticket only.
Valid on Irish Ferries
No unaccompanied children
under sixteen.
Break of journey permitted
where disruption to the ferry
service occurs.

The difference is that for the advance reservations are compulsory and no break of journey is allowed.

I'm not sure if you have to stick to those reservations but you may encounter difficulty by not doing so.

I hope I haven't confused this too much.

 

[Goatboy]

Yes, its much clearer now - thanks. Is it really possible that they don't sell out? Surely the boat only has so much space?

I am taking the Swift on the return (Though I'd rather not but it's the only daytime crossing it seems, the others are 8am or 9pm!).

 

[wintonian]

Yes, its much clearer now - thanks. Is it really possible that they don't sell out? Surely the boat only has so much space?

Well, even during the great ash cloud of 2010 they didn't sell out - they just suspended the sale of railsail tickets instead.

As far as I am aware that is the closest they have come to selling out and all those allready holding tickets were carried, but possibly not on the booked sailing.

Don't worry about it.

I also prefer the Ulysses, I find it much more relaxing.

 

[John @ home]

Standby tickets use codes 6J & 6L for Irish ferries or 6S for Stena - 6I, 6K (Irish Ferries) & 6R (Stena) are for the advance fares.

You can look them up here.

No. That's not the current version. 6K is present and 6C. The others are absent.

 

[wintonian]

No. That's not the current version. 6K is present and 6C. The others are absent.

Wel maybe someone ought to tell NRE then as thats the live version at; http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/OffPeak.pdf.

 

[John @ home]

that's the live version

Agreed, but SailRail tickets are not Off-Peak tickets, so I'm not surprised that NRE's list of Off-Peak restrictions does not encompass ticket types SailRail Advance or SailRail Standby. I don't know where to find the current SailRail restriction texts on NRE's site, but the unofficial site brfares.com is admirable as usual.

My own opinion is that the SailRail Advance restriction text "Reservations are compulsory on all legs" is not intended to, and does not, limit the passenger's choice of convenient non-reservable connecting services. My view is that Q&A 25 of Advance Fares FAQs applies.

Q25. Can passengers on an advance ticket travel on earlier connecting trains?

A. Yes if it is non-reservable, no if it is reservable.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=48377

 

[Goatboy]

All the trains I would use are reservable though which essentially means the Advance ticket is a 'booked train only' ticket I guess.

 

[wintonian]

``

Agreed, but SailRail tickets are not Off-Peak tickets, so I'm not surprised that NRE's list of Off-Peak restrictions does not encompass ticket types SailRail Advance or SailRail Standby. I don't know where to find the current SailRail restriction texts on NRE's site, but the unofficial site brfares.com is admirable as usual.

I had never thought of it like that.

My own opinion is that the SailRail Advance restriction text "Reservations are compulsory on all legs" is not intended to, and does not, limit the passenger's choice of convenient non-reservable connecting services. My view is that Q&A 25 of Advance Fares FAQs applies.

So you are saying that effectively the national rail part of the journey is the '&connections' part with the ferry kind of being 'TOC only' part?

All the trains I would use are reservable though which essentially means the Advance ticket is a 'booked train only' ticket I guess.

It would seem that if you live a long way from Holyhead then that is effectively correct.

Foe example for me there is only 1 ferry I can get to complete the trip in a day and I need to either get on at Euston or connect into at Chester the 09:10 Super Voyager, also meaning in order to meet the cross London transfer times or the minimum connection at Birmingham New Street and Chester I can only catch the first 2/ 3 trains from my local station.

Oddly this kind of suits me as I like to get a slightly earlier train into London in case of delay rather than miss the ferry at Holyhead and have to hang around getting board all afternoon, and the 09:10 is obviously reservable.

 

[John @ home]

All the trains I would use are reservable

Are they? Of the six trains mentioned in post #1, Table 71 of the National Rail Timetable does not display the diamond symbol indicating "Reservations Available" for

• 08:05 Great Malvern to Birmingham New Street, or
• 07:59 Great Malvern to Hereford.

 

[Goatboy]

Are they? Of the six trains mentioned in post #1, Table 71 of the National Rail Timetable does not display the diamond symbol indicating "Reservations Available" for

• 08:05 Great Malvern to Birmingham New Street, or
• 07:59 Great Malvern to Hereford.

Sorry, I was ambigious. I'd happily take mandatory reservations on the outward leg using the 08:05 but the system refuses to allow me to book. In this case I want an Advance but it isn't offered.

What I was talking about when I said they were all reservable was the return leg where an Advance would book me onto the 17:30 Holyhead to Shrewsbury and the 20:50 Shrewsbury to Hereford but where I'd value the flexiblity to get the 16:50 Holyhead to Hereford if it's still there when the ferry docks. To my knowledge all of these trains are reservable.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Still not letting me book onto any itiniary involving that 09:36 London Midland service from Birmingham to Crewe. Is it safe to assume that for whatever reason this particular service will never open for reservations?

Edit: Wow, this double post prevention thing is annoying. I wanted an entirely new post rather than a merge given its been a week but never mind. Anyway the London Midland website says:

Booking horizon: tickets currently available for journeys up to 4 January 2012

And

Routes where Advance fares are available:

Birmingham New Street to Liverpool

This train is both a) Prior to 4th January and b) On the Birmingham New Street to Liverpool route so why does not a single train on this route offer an advance fare for the 28th December? Any ideas?