Advance First Single Reservation

[Chris999999]

I have bought an Advance First Single from Basingstoke to Galashiels. I have today picked up the ticket and whilst it specifies my train and seat Kings Cross to Edinburgh as expected, it also specifies my train from Basingstoke to Waterloo with reservation Coach 0, Seat 00. There is nothing specified on the Edinburgh to Galashiels train.

Now Basingstoke has around 4 fast trains an hour with South West Rail so am I required to travel on this specific train from Basingstoke, particularly as there are no seat reservations on South West Rail, or can I take which ever train arrives next going to Waterloo when I arrive at the station?

The same applies to my return journey when I have a specified return train from Waterloo with the coach 0 seat 00. I know I can can take a later train if delayed, but can I take an earlier train?

I regularly buy tickets from Basingstoke with an itinerary but they have invariably let me travel on any train, and I invariably do.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I have bought an Advance First Single from Basingstoke to Galashiels. I have today picked up the ticket and whilst it specifies my train and seat Kings Cross to Edinburgh as expected, it also specifies my train from Basingstoke to Waterloo with reservation Coach 0, Seat 00. There is nothing specified on the Edinburgh to Galashiels train.

Now Basingstoke has around 4 fast trains an hour with South West Rail so am I required to travel on this specific train from Basingstoke, particularly as there are no seat reservations on South West Rail, or can I take which ever train arrives next going to Waterloo when I arrive at the station?

The same applies to my return journey when I have a specified return train from Waterloo with the coach 0 seat 00. I know I can can take a later train if delayed, but can I take an earlier train?

I regularly buy tickets from Basingstoke with an itinerary but they have invariably let me travel on any train, and I invariably do.

In theory you are supposed to take all services specified on the ticket(s). However, often you are officially, or unofficially, permitted to take any teain - e.g. Southern explicitly say that you can take any of their trains if you have an Advance to/from the other side of London, even if you are nominally booked on a specific Southern service.

It may be worth tweeting SWR to ask them if you are permitted to take any train.

In future, you can avoid being reserved onto a specific service by using a website like TrainSplit to specify specific stations that the train must call at, and by then adding in the station(s) that only the non-reservable stopping services call at (and limiting the number of changes to prevent it trying to jump back onto the fast train). That way you wouldn't have any reservation between Basingstoke and London, and you could therefore take any "appropriate connecting service", reservable or not.

 

[swt_passenger]

It’s a “counted place reservation” on the SWR leg. They’ve been doing it for some years, since SWT stopped putting out seat back cards. That’s the train you should use.

 

[Chris999999]

It’s a “counted place reservation” on the SWR leg. They’ve been doing it for some years, since SWT stopped putting out seat back cards. That’s the train you should use.

OK. I will use the train as long as it is not delayed/cancelled etc, though with carriage 0 and seat 00 this is hardly a reservation.

I think in future I will forget LNER and go back to Virgin where I have never had this problem,

 

[Hadders]

OK. I will use the train as long as it is not delayed/cancelled etc, though with carriage 0 and seat 00 this is hardly a reservation.

I think in future I will forget LNER and go back to Virgin where I have never had this problem,

It's not LNER's fault. You would get the same issue with Virgin, or any booking site for that matter.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

It's not LNER's fault. You would get the same issue with Virgin, or any booking site for that matter.

It's not LNER's fault specifically - but it is wrong to say that every booking site would do the same. A good booking site would offer you the opportunity to avoid having a reservation on that leg, and indeed some (e.g. TrainSplit/TrainsCanBeCheaper) do.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's not LNER's fault. You would get the same issue with Virgin, or any booking site for that matter.

Search finds about 20 pages of posts about “counted place reservations” going back to around 2010, and involving the majority of TOCs, other than the main intercity TOCs. Normally they are explained as being printed as coach * seat ** though.

I’d agree that switching booking sites shouldn’t change anything...

 

[Hadders]

It's not LNER's fault specifically - but it is wrong to say that every booking site would do the same. A good booking site would offer you the opportunity to avoid having a reservation on that leg, and indeed some (e.g. TrainSplit/TrainsCanBeCheaper) do.

Any booking site selling the same ticket on the same ticket as the OP will give a reservation. Certain booking sites do allow you to tweak the itinerary, routeing or actual tickets purchased to give the desired result but the end result of doing this means it's not exactly the same ticket.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Any booking site selling the same ticket on the same ticket as the OP will give a reservation. Certain booking sites do allow you to tweak the itinerary, routeing or actual tickets purchased to give the desired result but the end result of doing this means it's not exactly the same ticket.

Yes, but most booking sites don't even give you the option to customise the itinerary in that way - and so, really, it is the fault of the likes of LNER that they don't cater to that. This is especially the case where, as in e.g. LNER's case, they have migrated to a brand new (awful) site.

 

[Starmill]

If you want to travel earlier than reserved, you could ask SWR on twitter if they'll allow that for someoe going to Galashiels. If they so no, go to the ticket office and explain you're on your way to Galashiels, and ask if you can get the next train to London Waterloo. If you can't speak to the ticket office, try a member of station staff or ask at the ticket gates. One of these options will probably result in a positive outcome, and you being told you can travel on the earlier train.

If all of these fail, you can go through to the platform and ask the guard if you can use that ticket on their train. If you can manage to find them in time and they see you're going all the way to Galashiels they'll probably say yes. I know there is at least one SWR guard who would!

 

[Chris999999]

Yes if the trains to London are showing as running late, and at the end of the morning peak they almost invariably are, I'll just ask someone (wearing a hi-vis jacket) if it is OK as I have a long way to go and don't want to miss my connections. Naivety usually works. I will ask the guard if I can find him.

As for booking through Virgin, they have always given me an itinerary with a specific train, but I have never been givien this carriage 0, seat 00 on a specific train before nonsense.

 

[yorkie]

I know I can can take a later train if delayed, but can I take an earlier train?

I regularly buy tickets from Basingstoke with an itinerary but they have invariably let me travel on any train, and I invariably do.

Ask staff on the day.

If they'd rather you stuck to the booked train in the event of delays, it would be an odd choice for SWR to make as they would be increasing the chances of you missing your onward service, which would make SWR liable to pay Delay Repay compensation for your journey.

In future you could obtain a different connecting service if you wish, by using a booking site that allows extended interchange time.

 

[yorkie]

As for booking through Virgin, they have always given me an itinerary with a specific train, but I have never been givien this carriage 0, seat 00 on a specific train before nonsense.

It's the same thing, it may just be printed differently.

 

[Chris999999]

Thanks everyone for your help. I will ask staff at the time.

It just strikes me as odd that on a line which has 4 or 5 fast trains an hour you are allocated a seat which cannot be reserved, and expected to stick to it. It should either be a reserved seat on a specific train, or any seat on any train.

 

[robbeech]

It’s just how the system has been set up and has been working for years. It’s not perfect.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks everyone for your help. I will ask staff at the time.

It just strikes me as odd that on a line which has 4 or 5 fast trains an hour you are allocated a seat which cannot be reserved, and expected to stick to it. It should either be a reserved seat on a specific train, or any seat on any train.

You are allocated a train but not a seat. Yes it is odd but it's the way SWR have set up their trains.

If you want to obtain an itinerary without any train specified between Basingstoke and London, you would need to specify something like calling at: Brookwood (e.g. Trainsplit lets you do this under Advanced Options), this won't give you a counted place reservation coupon for that leg of the journey.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks everyone for your help. I will ask staff at the time.

It just strikes me as odd that on a line which has 4 or 5 fast trains an hour you are allocated a seat which cannot be reserved, and expected to stick to it. It should either be a reserved seat on a specific train, or any seat on any train.

It's done so that SWR can sell Advances on their own trains without having actual reserved seats (which on primarily commuter services are more trouble than they are worth). This kind of thing is sort of "collateral damage".

 

[Chris999999]

You are allocated a train but not a seat. Yes it is odd but it's the way SWR have set up their trains.

If you want to obtain an itinerary without any train specified between Basingstoke and London, you would need to specify something like calling at: Brookwood (e.g. Trainsplit lets you do this under Advanced Options), this won't give you a counted place reservation coupon for that leg of the journey.

Thanks for the advice. I will do this in future.

 

[gray1404]

In theory you are supposed to take all services specified on the ticket(s). However, often you are officially, or unofficially, permitted to take any teain - e.g. Southern explicitly say that you can take any of their trains if you have an Advance to/from the other side of London, even if you are nominally booked on a specific Southern service.

Is this documented anywhere regarding Southern as this would be useful. Thanks.

 

[yorkie]

Is this documented anywhere regarding Southern as this would be useful. Thanks.

I've seen it in a GTR memo.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Is this documented anywhere regarding Southern as this would be useful. Thanks.

I think you'll find it's what they tell you if you ask them on Twitter,.

 

[gray1404]

I wish I had known this sooner. The amount of times I have waited at Victoria/Clapham Junction for my "booked train" having come from the North of England and let others go. If anyone has it in writing anywhere so I so I have proof to take when travelling that would be great.

 

[Starmill]

I wish I had known this sooner. The amount of times I have waited at Victoria/Clapham Junction for my "booked train" having come from the North of England and let others go. If anyone has it in writing anywhere so I so I have proof to take when travelling that would be great.

Did you not ever ask? The answer is almost always given yes. This point has been made again and again and again both in this thread and across this forum, for years, as swtpassneger points out.

A special policy to allow this, from in an internal staff document, would be better discussed in a dedicated thread. East Coast used to have such a policy regarding Stevenge to London too.

 

[gray1404]

I have just asked SN on Twitter, their reply: With advance tickets they're limited to the specific train.

I have created a separate thread to discuss policy from an internal staff document regarding Southern.

Yes, I have asked for permission to travel on a different train before. I have had it allowed and refused.