"Advance Ticket only valid at a different time if endorsed"

[sheff1]

This morning the TM on the EMT from Sheffield to London made an amazingly lengthy announcement before departure, one part of which was that "if you have an advance ticket for any train other than this one, then it is not valid on this train unless it has been endorsed for travel on this train before you boarded the train".

I assume they were talking about instances where a connecting train had been delayed, but my understanding is that there is no requirement to get a ticket endorsed in such circumstances (although clearly it would do no harm) - certainly NRCoC 12 makes no reference to it.

Questions:

1. Is there any guidance anywhere which does suggest that Advance tickets must be endorsed if a connecting train is delayed ?

2. Apart from late connecting trains, what other circumstances (if any) would cause an Advance ticket to be endorsed with authorisation to travel on a train other than the booked one ?

3. In cases of Advance ticket endorsement, is the specific alternative train on which authority has been given to travel always noted on the ticket ?

 

[34D]

2 could be issues at the station (lifts out of order, passenger falling ill, etc etc).

3 not in my limited experience, no it isnt.

 

[stephy]

Typical EMT to make announcements long enough to test the patience of a saint

 

[snail]

Is there any guidance anywhere which does suggest that Advance tickets must be endorsed if a connecting train is delayed ?

The definitive advice is NRCoC Condition 12:

If you purchase an Advance ticket, you must use that ticket in the train specified when you book your ticket. However, if you miss this service because a previous connecting train service was delayed you will be able to travel on the next service provided by the Train Company with whom you were booked to travel without penalty.

Nothing there about needing authorisation, the only proviso is that you must use the same TOC.

 

[bb21]

The definitive advice is NRCoC Condition 12:

Nothing there about needing authorisation, the only proviso is that you must use the same TOC.

No such requirement whatsoever. Staff can quite easily verify delays to previous services.

 

[yorkie]

This morning the TM on the EMT from Sheffield to London made an amazingly lengthy announcement before departure, one part of which was that "if you have an advance ticket for any train other than this one, then it is not valid on this train unless it has been endorsed for travel on this train before you boarded the train".

Sounds like he's made that up.

I assume they were talking about instances where a connecting train had been delayed, but my understanding is that there is no requirement to get a ticket endorsed in such circumstances (although clearly it would do no harm) - certainly NRCoC 12 makes no reference to it.

No such requirement at all, and the Conditions state you "will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete [your] journey". If there was a requirement to visit the ticket office, it could cause the next available train to be missed!

2. Apart from late connecting trains, what other circumstances (if any) would cause an Advance ticket to be endorsed with authorisation to travel on a train other than the booked one ?

Any circumstance where discretion is shown, for example I got my ticket endorsed by station staff due to a bus delay.

 

[ashworth]

The definitive advice is NRCoC Condition 12:

Nothing there about needing authorisation, the only proviso is that you must use the same TOC.

Unfortunately how you are treated often seems to be dependent upon the attitude of the staff on duty and the TOC.
If possible, if time is available before boarding a later service I try to get written authorisation as it saves explanations and problems with difficult staff later in the journey. I know it probably shouldn't be necessary but it does no harm and should help. However, even in getting authorisation you can encounter difficult staff. But I wouldn't waste time getting authorisation if I was in danger of missing the next onward connection.

Two opposite examples:
1. Travelling from Leeds to Mansfield changing at Retford and Worksop.
East Coast Train from Leeds cancelled had to get next train from Leeds which didn't stop at Retford and was therefore advised to get off at Doncaster and seek advice there. Staff in Information Centre were very helpful and issued me with a paper ticket that allowed me to travel by next available service by any TOC and any reasonable route. This turned out to be Northern to Sheffield, EMT to Nottingham and EMT to Mansfield. No problems with any staff accepting paper ticket even travelling via Nottingham rather than Worksop.

2. Travelling from Mansfield to London St. Pancras changing at Nottingham.
EMT train from Mansfield was delayed by nearly 20 minutes resulting in missed connection at Nottingham. Guard on this train advised me to call in supervisors office on platform at Nottingham to get authorisation to travel on next EMT service to London. In the supervisors office felt I was treated with suspicion, almost treated like a fare dodger! In cold wet and windy weather, I was then kept on the platform, and not allowed to board the next London train until the Train Manager had been located, informed and his permission given. All the time this supervisor tried to give me the impression it was solely down to the decision of the Train Manager on the next available London train and there was a possibility he could refuse. What nonsense and how would an elderly or inexperienced traveler have reacted to this.

Just for the record I want to make the following comment. I know that was EMT and they often get a bad press in these forums and no wonder if passengers are treated like I was. However, in their defense, I travel regularly with EMT and usually find their on train staff very friendly and helpful as they are normally at the stations I use most frequently - Mansfield, Chesterfield, Alfreton and Nottingham.

 

[jp347]

I always used to get it marked/authorised by stations when time allowed, but then I had EC staff at London Kings Cross try to take my ticket off me and give me a ticket to Peterborough only (my destination was Spalding) and that I would have to sleep on the station until the next day as I had missed my train (due to a late incoming train). I refused took my ticket and Peterborough sorted it out properly.

I do try to get it endorsed at BHM as they are very helpful there and there is plenty of time with Cambrian Coast trains.