Advance ticket restrictions... too harsh?

[ashworth]

If they know the bus is likely to be late then they should try and catch an earlier bus. I am not sure how the railway can be to blame for someone else's poor planning or a late bus.

I used to use Advance tickets quite a lot but during this last year, since reaching 60, I find that by using a Senior Railcard, Off Peak Returns are usually at a reasonably acceptable price. I know that I could now get Advance tickets even cheaper with my railcard but I am enjoying the freedom of more flexible tickets.

I live a couple of miles from my nearest station and being a rural area the bus is only every hour with no buses in the evenings or on Sundays. If ever I did have to use the bus to reach the station when I was travelling with Advance tickets, if it was too wet to walk the 2 miles, I would always get the bus 1 hour before I really needed to just to be safe. I know it’s very inconvenient adding an extra hour to the beginning of a journey , but that’s part of what I was willing to do, to get cheaper rail journeys, without the stress of perhaps missing my train and having to pay again. There’s only about 7 minutes connection time between bus and train and so I never dared to risk it just in case the bus was late or didn’t turn up.

 

[cuccir]

It's disappointing that the 'buy in advance and save' line is still replicated in very simplistic terms in advertisements. The headline message remains 'buy at My Train Company online and save over 50%', with no mention that this saving compares different products; no wonder infrequent travelers are prone to confusion.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It's disappointing that the 'buy in advance and save' line is still replicated in very simplistic terms in advertisements. The headline message remains 'buy at My Train Company online and save over 50%', with no mention that this saving compares different products; no wonder infrequent travelers are prone to confusion.

Internet rail ticket sales are largely based on the false premise that your are saving money by doing it, most internet purchasers probably pay more in booking fees/ credit card fees buying of peak and anytime tickets that are available on the day. However people do it through habit as they buy on the internet other things and perceived wisdom says everything on the internet is cheaper which it isn't.

The other side of the coin is that we get people coming in buying local anytime day returns a few days before hand who don't need to and don't save any money, and others who believe that by booking ahead you will always save, in 2-3 days time they want to go to London or somewhere on the Cross Country for the weekend returning Sunday afternoon - blank stares of disbelief when we have to tell them the cheap AP stuff has long since been snapped up....

 

[bb21]

When you say restricted, are you reffering to the application of Off Peak restrictions or something else? I read your post again and I'm not quite grasping it here?

Yes, by "restricted", I mean "barred"/not valid, in the same sense that "peak" services are barred to people holding Off-Peak fares, if you like (although the concept of "peak service" is a red herring which doesn't actually exist).

 

[BigCj34]

They are not too harsh, no. The ticket is heavily, sometimes ridiculously, discounted. That discount comes on the condition that the passenger travels on the booked train only. If customers want flexibility, then they can get an Anytime ticket. Personally, I always get anytime tickets, as I don't like to be timed, but I think Advance fares make good commercial sense, as the TOCs actually retain more money from the price of those tickets, as opposed to conventional, government regulated fares, where only 3p from every pound goes back to the TOC.

I think theirs several problems here with fares and public perception generally-

1. Some people unreasonably expect the railway to transport them for tuppenny halfpenny half way round the UK - they often tend to be "older lifestyle choice" incomers to my area who don't like the reality of paying to visit relatives in the SE of England.
   
2. Some people are financially illiterate to real travel costs - I know of people who will drive 150 + miles and pay city centre parking who wail that rail fares are too expensive rather than pay £20.00 on a rail ticket. I had a lady complain that the £28.10 off peak return to Birmingham International from Newtown was too expensive the other day, I asked her if she had got a quote for a taxi or looked at how much parking a her car would cost for 2 weeks.......
   
3. Many people have heard on the media that rail fares are a con/ too expensive and apply that perceived wisdom to all fares even the good value for money ones. Ive seen people moan that the £39.70 Super Off Peak Return form Newtown to Marylebone is putting people off traveling by rail....
4. Price gouging by the TOC's on "peak" fares and the growing gap between walk on and book ahead has created culture of bargain hunting and trying to get one over the TOC's, there's market resistance to pricing policy's.
   
5. Some fares are genuinely too expensive and discourage travel, Cardiff is the destination we get he most inquries about from people who don't buy tickets this then feeds into the above factors. Cardiff is 99 miles by road , 135 by rail from here. The £63.10 Off Peak Return is just not competitive especially for multiples.

It does not help that many reasonable fares are hidden by split-tickets, and also the perception that TOC's are making huge profits that the media will eat, even the Guardian has no problem regurgitating, rather than realising running the railway costs money. Clearly there is something odd about European train companies running franchises that the UK public sector cannot bid for, and it would be nice to pay a few percent less under a not-for-profit system. The saving would be just that though, a few percent, renationalising is not going to make rail travel a free-for-all.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It does not help that many reasonable fares are hidden by split-tickets, and also the perception that TOC's are making huge profits that the media will eat, even the Guardian has no problem regurgitating, rather than realising running the railway costs money. Clearly there is something odd about European train companies running franchises that the UK public sector cannot bid for, and it would be nice to pay a few percent less under a not-for-profit system. The saving would be just that though, a few percent, renationalising is not going to make rail travel a free-for-all.

Timothy the TOC "only" makes c25% of the profits that are taken from the rial industry though. Those nice people at the ROSCO's make as much as the TOC's and then there's the murky world of Network Rail's multi layered contractor system. In all the debate about Network Rail not being able to control costs the loudest voices have of course been the likes of Balfour Betty confessing that they've been more than happy to gold plate everything with a profit margin on top.....

 

[Gareth Marston]

Of course going back to the original question are AP#s too restrictive why not abolish them?

We did a single leg pricing exercise on all the tickets we sold to Birmingham New St in June this year. We analyzed the number of sales of each type of ticket , the total revenue and then divided by the number of single leg journeys.

The un- discounted Anytime Day Return from Newtown is £20.00 the Anytime Single £19.90, the Off Peak Return £26.20 we don't have an Anytime Return or any Off Peak Day options. There's also AP tickets ranging from £8.50 to £13.50 in 5 bands. The average single leg price paid in June came out at £10.96. Just having a walk on single at £11.00 would kill all the complexity and probably not have too much effect on the overall revenue. Though I would probably have an Off Peak Single @ £10.00 and an Anytime Single @ £12.50. (Arrive BHM 0730 to 0929 depart 1630 to 1829 weekdays).