aggressive photographer preserved line

[zaph]

I have a long standing interest in trains and have visited many preserved lines without a single problem. Till an incident today that really shock me up. End of the day and I decided to walk down the platform to view the locomotive. Two photographers taking pictures of the train, both by the back fence, so I had to walk in front of them to get to the loco.

First was a stills camera, so I judged that passing him wouldn't do much harm. Second was video, so I ducked under the camera. Then all hell breaks loose, the man with the video camera jumps in front of me. Then gives me a mouth full if abuse, he was bigger than me, had me virtually pinned to the platform fence, really in my face.

He threatened physical violence and also to find me latter. Fortunately members of my family were nearby as where station staff. Who removed the man and got abuse for their trouble.

The other photographer said this guy has boasted of doing this to another person early that day. I am posting because I want to know if anyone else has had a similar experience. Also because I believe the man in question is dangerous and frankly in hindsight I wish I had involved the police. To be honest I find it shocking that such an individual could be a train enthusiast, a group I have always found cuteous, welcoming and friendly.

 

[Oswyntail]

Which line?
All pastimes have their nutters, and those who take things too seriously. Taking videos, even stills, in a public place is always going to be hit and miss, and the photographer has no right to expect otherwise. The only proper response to someone getting in the way of a shot is to shrug one's shoulders and hope for better luck next time. At least with video, any editor with half a brain can edit out the intrusion.

 

[zaph]

Which line?
All pastimes have their nutters, and those who take things too seriously. Taking videos, even stills, in a public place is always going to be hit and miss, and the photographer has no right to expect otherwise. The only proper response to someone getting in the way of a shot is to shrug one's shoulders and hope for better luck next time. At least with video, any editor with half a brain can edit out the intrusion.

I am a bit wary of giving too many details for legal reasons. I don't want to implicate an innocent person, reason I kept description of the man in question and line vague.

I would agree with you, I try to avoid blocking shots etc, but at the end of day I am there to look at the trains and travel on them. As are most people there, and they may ruin a perfect shot.

It was the OTT reaction that shocked me, I know that these things sometimes happen in the modern world, but I never expected it on a preserved line.

 

[Tubeboy]

I went to Bridgnorth on the Silver King railtour. I was genuinely shocked with how rude people were. Blocking seats on the platform and in the bar. Tutting if you asked them could you squeeze past as they and their pals formed wall like structures all over the place. Really put me off going there again. I found other preserved lines a lot better. Unfortunately there are some very aggressive enthusiasts out there, most in my experience lacking basic social skills. They think everything is there for them and them only.

 

[talltim]

Wasn't this guy was it?
http://youtu.be/uCSrU3X2wLI

 

[Whistler40145]

Oh that repulsive individual!

 

[chris89]

I went to Bridgnorth on the Silver King railtour. I was genuinely shocked with how rude people were. Blocking seats on the platform and in the bar. Tutting if you asked them could you squeeze past as they and their pals formed wall like structures all over the place. Really put me off going there again. I found other preserved lines a lot better. Unfortunately there are some very aggressive enthusiasts out there, most in my experience lacking basic social skills. They think everything is there for them and them only.

Sad to hear that happening on the SVR, especially at Bridgnorth. Although as all places you will come across people like that.

 

[ainsworth74]

A minority of photters (one suspect the same that often trespass) do like to give the rest a bad reputation and make things nasty for everyone else. I recall at Railfest in York a few years ago a group of us were getting up close and personal with the front end of the visiting VT 221 at ground level. Which, of course, is not something we'd normally be able to do. Only to be told quite rudely to 'get out of the way' by a photter who was unwilling to wait a few minutes to get their shot. It's not as if the train was going anywhere...

 

[455driver]

Somebody once mouthed off at my son for getting in his way (on a NR station) but when I confronted him about it he was a coward towards me so I just made sure I got in his way every time he tried to take a picture, including following him from platform to platform. Eventually he got the hint and as he left I made it clear to him that if I ever saw him shout at a child again I would put the spineless cretin in hospital.
I have seen him several times since (including today at Bodmin) and I always say hello to him, just so he knows I havent forgotten.

Isnt it funny how this lot only mouth off at people who are smaller than them, children or the elderly!

 

[zaph]

Wasn't this guy was it?
http://youtu.be/uCSrU3X2wLI

No not him, but similar situation. Put it down to experience, some people are just idiots.

To be fair most of the photographers were perfectly friendly and polite, but like you say, it just takes one idiot to ruin it for everyone.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Old farts with their crappy ancient cameras are not worth the trouble these days, it's just easier to laugh at them and thank them for their kind comments!

 

[muz379]

Last time I was visiting a heritage line my OH accidentally got in the way of someone trying to take a photo or video and straight away he turned the attitude on her and started mouthing off . Until I made it very clear he had started on the wrong person and if he carried on her blocking a bit of one of his shots would be the least of his worries , he soon cowered away .

I find some of the people that are "enthusiasts " can be quite child like in their behavior and will throw a tantrum at the slightest thing . Its a shame it spoils it for everyone else who is just there for a nice day out .

glad to here the station staff got involved and got rid of him though sometimes you see these heritage lines letting people like that get away with their tantrums because they are regulars .

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

glad to here the station staff got involved and got rid of him though sometimes you see these heritage lines letting people like that get away with their tantrums because they are regulars .

You would think that those bad mannered "regulars" are ones that any heritage railway would not wish to have on their premises, if only for the public relations problems that can be caused by such a very poor attitude displayed by them.

 

[Johnuk123]

Old farts with their crappy ancient cameras are not worth the trouble these days, it's just easier to laugh at them and thank them for their kind comments!

That's right because all the obnoxious rail enthusiasts are the older ones aren't they ?

 

[Whistler40145]

Would you say 43 is old?

I'm quite easy going and accommodate others photography needs, we all want to take pictures.

 

[Johnuk123]

Would you say 43 is old?

I'm quite easy going and accommodate others photography needs, we all want to take pictures.

When you're a teenager 43 is seen as positively geriatric but being in my 50's I see 43 as young (ish)

 

[Alistair G.]

I've plenty of abuse of drivers in the past and even passengers when they could slide the window down in carriages (lost count the number times I was spat at when on clapham and it was the old slam door stock). So it's a shame when a fellow a enthusiast also wants to turn on you.

Just seen that you tube clip somebody posted on page 1 of this thread, that person is sub human scum, vile individual!.

As for the original poster of this threads it does shake you up when things like this happen but don't let it out you off the hobby. I've learnt now to give just as much back to them and like with all "bullies" they soon cower.

I spent one Saturday on the GCR a few years back following a guy around and standing in front of his camera at every station he got off at after he decided he wanted to try and mouth of at me and my Wife. Gave him a few kind verbals back (I refuse to use language, we have many other words in our vocabulary with having to result to f**k and w**ker all the time) and told him I was about to ruin his day. We had a good few words with each other and he missed his video of a steam run around at Leicester North because I was jumping jacks and touching toes (nobody wants to see that) about 3 foot from where he stood with camera. When I told him he could view my video on you tube I took of the exact same run around but from earlier in the morning he swore one last time at me and walked out the station.

Wouldn't normally go to such lengths but this guy was just as vile as the one seen in the you tube clip somebody posted.

I honestly think that if things like trespassing and disorder continue to happen on the mainline then it will be an end to specials because we just won't be able to police it..... Sadly I do think it will take the death of someone before this happens, but that's what happens when you trespass

 

[Greenback]

Maybe I'm lucky, but I've been out and about taking photos on many lines for years and I've never had any problem. I try and be considerate and expect similar levels of consideration back, but I also don't expect not to have people in my shot - and I prefer it as it gives a photo a bit more life, in my view.

Perhaps it helps that I'm not a child or an elderly person, and I look like I will stand up for myself, but I have found fellow photographers have respect for others taking photo's and also for those who want to see the loco.

 

[GarethJohn]

What do these ''Enthusiasts'' do when genuine passengers are using the Station and happen to walk off the train to stretch their legs(if they have time)in front of the Camera?
The Train is primarily there for the purpose of those travelling on it, they are behaving in a way that it's their so they can take it's Photo.
If they wish to take uninterrupted shots in a public place then request too cordon off a bit of the platform from the owners of the Station.
I have seen a ''You Tube'' Video of an old Diesel train sitting on a platform where( possibly a genuine passenger) decides to look through the window at the engine. He then gets shouted at by those with Camera's too ''get out of the way''. '' What a cheek'' I would stay in shot out of principle and will move if they asked politely.
Who would have the greater right to be there, the paying passenger waiting for their service or someone who's just there to take a photo?
If I go to a Football Match and take some shots of the Stand's what reaction would I expect if I asked the fans to stop walking to the Stadium so I could take a photo?

 

[Greenback]

As I say, I've never encountered these types of photographer myself, but if I did I'd leave them in absolutely no doubt that I consider them rude, unpleasant, obnoxious, and doing the hobbies a great disservice by giving other photographers and enthusiasts a very bad name.

 

[Whistler40145]

Greenback, I totally agree, this individual is giving a bad impression that all railway photographers and enthusiasts are like him.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

That's right because all the obnoxious rail enthusiasts are the older ones aren't they ?

Sorry, I didn't mean it that way, I never meant to imply that all old enthusiasts are obnoxious. When I used the term 'old farts' I used it to imply the older-generation who are obnoxious as opposed to every old person. If I meant every old person I would have simply said all old people. 90% of older enthusiasts are fine, it's the other 10% giving the rest a bad name, as was earlier pointed out.

When you're a teenager 43 is seen as positively geriatric but being in my 50's I see 43 as young (ish)

As a teenager myself, I don't see 43 as being that old at all, I don't even see it as middle aged (although most would say it is). That could well be due to the fact I have older parents than most, or the fact that five years ago you would only be 38 and five years has gone so fast for me, age isn't noticeable? Who knows!?

 

[GarethJohn]

I have also noticed at some preserved lines a sort of contempt attitude towards the general public by the enthusiast as if they are outsiders muscling in on their hobby and are beneath those who can tell the difference between a 101 and 111 DMU.
The popular well run lines are those that see the general public as the reason that they are still open and able to expand as they are potential supporters.
I find that a few preserved lines are run by wealthy enthusiasts who want to ''play trains'' and are not too keen on sharing their interest with outsiders, but are forced too if they wish to gather support to keep running. This can lead to a poor experience for people like the OP want to expand their knowledge of the industry and will only seek to damage the business of heritage lines.

 

[Greenback]

There is by nature a desire for anyone with a hobby to regard it as special to them and others who share it, but I haven't noticed any such attitude being expressed by anyone when I have visited preserved lines.

The railways themselves recognise that the enthusiast element of the market is relatively small, though important, which is why they attempt to attract everyone by way of galas, dining trains, family days and the like.

Happily, I've always found fellow enthusiasts to be helpful and welcoming, such as the chap who once took the time to explain the characteristics of the Gloucester Warwickshire Railway to my father when he overheard him asking me a question I couldn't answer.

 

[455driver]

Sorry, I didn't mean it that way, I never meant to imply that all old enthusiasts are obnoxious. When I used the term 'old farts' I used it to imply the older-generation who are obnoxious as opposed to every old person. If I meant every old person I would have simply said all old people. 90% of older enthusiasts are fine, it's the other 10% giving the rest a bad name, as was earlier pointed out.

As you only mention 'old farts' then how else could your post be construed!

Every prat I have even met and had dealings with (except one who was a volunteer at the West Somerset Rly) has been a 20 something with a bucket full of attitude towards children, funnily enough they shut up when the parents get involved.

 

[swj99]

I for one do not mind hearing about this situation at all. If I did mind, I'd simply log off and do something else instead.

Rather than bringing problems to you, the OP has described a situation and given other forum members the opportunity to discuss it. If you object to that, I wonder why you continued to read the topic.

I don't know what these aggressive types hope to achieve by confronting other people who have a right to be there. When we were filming in a mainline station a few years ago, with written permission from the relevant TOC, we just factored delays into the schedule, and did several takes of the sequence we were filming. Admittedly we did have a few people who seemed to stare at the camera all the way past, but so what, we got the footage we wanted in the end. In another scene, outside some shops, a woman came up and asked, "Why are you filming that man ?" I politely told her we were making a film, and she happily went on her way, without needing to be threatened, beaten up or otherwise abused.

 

[pdeaves]

I also don't expect not to have people in my shot - and I prefer it as it gives a photo a bit more life, in my view.

What a refreshing view. I often wonder why people go to such great lengths to get railway pictures devoid of all human life. They are after all there because of people, provided for people! I find that published photos with action in them (passengers milling around the station, dispatchers waving the train away, etc.) hold my attention much longer than a generic 'front three quarter in countryside' or similar.

 

[Greenback]

What a refreshing view. I often wonder why people go to such great lengths to get railway pictures devoid of all human life. They are after all there because of people, provided for people! I find that published photos with action in them (passengers milling around the station, dispatchers waving the train away, etc.) hold my attention much longer than a generic 'front three quarter in countryside' or similar.

I'm glad you agree! I find shots of a still locomotive a little soulless, and I much prefer to see and to shoot a train moving, taking on water, or anything really with a bit of movement and action in it. I do think that people in shot, whether they are admiring the loco, talking to others or taking their own photos is a positive thing that can breathe life into a shot.

It's so easy these days to get rid of shots that don't come out right for any reason that I wonder if the aggressive photographers are more likely to be using film, and so are more precious about wasting a 'perfect' shot when someone suddenly pops up in the middle of it?

 

[deltic1989]

It never ceases to amaze me how some people will behave in public. Seriously, there really is no point, over a photograph or video of all things. Some people need to take a reality check, while the guy is getting in someones face over a missed shot, away the train goes and with it his photo op.
For my part whilst I don't actively encourage people to step into my photos, if they do....Oh well. I'm standing in a public place and so are they.
I have found that some people who unwittingly stray into my shot, when they realise they are full of apologies, but its really not a problem to me. I take a similar view to Greenback in that I actually prefer people to be about to add life to the photo.
In one instance at the GCR (Quorn or Rothely I can't exactly recall) I was lining up a shot, when a small boy wandered in looking in awe at the loco. At this point I lowered my camera as some parents can be a bit wary of a stranger taking pictures with their children in (understandably so in some circumstances but that's another thread entirely).
Cue Mum sprinting in his wake sayin "[childs name] The man is trying to take a picture" and then turning to me apologising. I simply said that I didn't mind him being there if she didn't, and an e-mail address was passed so I could send the picture, as her phone battery was flat so she couldn't take any.
Examples like mine, I hope, shed a good light on rail enthusiasts and photographers. Examples like the OP and the YT video sadly do not. Then again, a sad fact of life is you will get some planks in any hobby.

 

[Busaholic]

It happens in the bus world too, at running days and suchlike, especially if they are 'free' - this sort of individual will also not buy a programme, which helps defray the cost, and will sometimes try to barge on to a specific bus which people have been waiting to ride on for up to an hour. A good example was the 75 years of RTs in London earlier this year - the opportunity to ride on RT1 brought me up from Cornwall and was the only ride that day that cost, namely £10, and the bus was virtually empty! I am not a wealthy man but I recognise and value an unprecedented opportunity but was almost prevented from getting on the bus by some guy standing on the platform trying to photo or video everything without travelling and paying a fare.