Alcohol bans

[Esker-pades]

What's wrong with having a few pints on the train anyway?
If somebody is rowdy they should be asked to leave.
Alcohol is not the problem.
Some peoples behaviour is a problem

Alcohol is more likely to make people behave in a disorderly fasion. It also isn't great when the carriage stinks of beer.

 

[farleigh]

Alcohol is more likely to make people behave in a disorderly fasion. It also isn't great when the carriage stinks of beer.

By all means deal with anybody who is rowdy or disorderly. That should be done but many people are aggressive or rowdy without alcohol. Similarly, many people are perfectly behaved while drinking.
If the ban was in place due to the smell then anything smelly should be banned.
I appreciate that you don't like the smell of beer. I don't like strong perfume but I put up with it because some people like it. I am willing to be annoyed in order to be tolerant.

 

[Bletchleyite]

People have been refused travel on the Newcastle to Carlisle dry trains for exactly that sadly. The Travel Safe Officers di check bags

This is the thing I have a bigger issue with than prohibiting drinking. M&S and the likes at stations are a convenient place to purchase a bottle of wine or similar to consume when you get home. I think the TfL and Merseyrail policy of prohibiting consumption but allowing carrying of unopened containers is a much more sensible one.

 

[HowardGWR]

This is the thing I have a bigger issue with than prohibiting drinking. M&S and the likes at stations are a convenient place to purchase a bottle of wine or similar to consume when you get home. I think the TfL and Merseyrail policy of prohibiting consumption but allowing carrying of unopened containers is a much more sensible one.

I think that the imposition on airport pax of such a stricture would be equally unworkable. How about a visitor to Scotland's many distilleries, who is carrying home a souvenir bottle? The examples of such trips are endlessly imaginable. Often, when my wife and I return from a trip abroad, we will have bought a bottle of the local wine at the origin airport as a souvenir, or, importantly, to obtain an airport bag to give extra luggage capacity allowance. Often, we will buy a bottle when changing at Clapham Junction, to enjoy a glass with the food we will have bought on the overbridge retail outlets. Crikey, the whole rail economy and attraction of rail instead of driving, is based on being able to buy food and drink and consume it in comfort, while watching the passing scene, instead of wondering what the lunatic dreamer, tailgating you on the motorway, is going to do next.

 

[Skymonster]

There is a strong puritanical streak on this board.

For the 9 millionth time: If you have a sealed bottle in your bag no one is going to care. No one is going to ask you to tip it away. No one is going to arrest you or chuck you off the train for carrying a sealed bottle in your baggage. You wont be searched. Your bags wont be searched. This comes up every time a thread of this nature appears. It is tiresome.

Anecdotal evidence from elsewhere suggests that you are totally wrong on this point.

 

[Mag_seven]

I think the TfL and Merseyrail policy of prohibiting consumption but allowing carrying of unopened containers is a much more sensible one.

What constitutes an "unopened" container? Fairly clear cut in the case of a can of Special Brew but what about a closed screwcap bottle of whisky with a nip out of it?

 

[geoffk]

I've seen plenty of people drinking alcohol on Scotrail during the prescribed times - the staff on board don't appear to care.

I had a whisky on the Far North line on Saturday. OK we're not talking about on-board trolleys. As a matter of interest, which other Scotrail trains have trolleys?

 

[InOban]

Almost all the longer distance ones. It's in the franchise.

 

[DarloRich]

Anecdotal evidence from elsewhere suggests that you are totally wrong on this point.

maybe - but I have been on many dry trains before or after football. I have never once been searched.

 

[farleigh]

The change in attitudes has been (relatively) rapid.
In the mid nineties I travelled in the cab of a train with my friend who was a guard and (obviously) the driver. They got through a six-pack of lager on the hour long journey.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The change in attitudes has been (relatively) rapid.
In the mid nineties I travelled in the cab of a train with my friend who was a guard and (obviously) the driver. They got through a six-pack of lager on the hour long journey.

I certainly remember as a kid (born 79) that you would quite often smell drink on the breath of adults on a day to day basis, possibly from a lunchtime pint or four; this is almost completely absent these days unless you're in a pub or out in a city in the evening.

 

[geoffk]

I had a whisky on the Far North line on Saturday. OK we're not talking about on-board trolleys. "Scotrail's ban is actually 9pm-10am rather than the close of service."

Does that mean the on-board trolley will not serve alcohol between those times? Assuming they have any left!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does that mean the on-board trolley will not serve alcohol between those times? Assuming they have any left!

Correct, and you have to finish up and dispose of[1] before 9 if you have any. The announcements sound a bit like the bell going in a pub.

[1] Carrying it in your bladder is permitted

 

[geoffk]

Correct, and you have to finish up and dispose of[1] before 9 if you have any. The announcements sound a bit like the bell going in a pub.

[1] Carrying it in your bladder is permitted

Does that apply even on the sleepers, or just on Scotrail trains?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does that apply even on the sleepers, or just on Scotrail trains?

Just ScotRail. You can still have a wee dram before bed on the Sleeper.

 

[GodAtum]

I sincerely wish smelly food was banned.

TfL got it right with their "The smell of your snack may make someone else crack" posters a few years ago.

Depends if the train service serves food.

 

[al78]

By all means deal with anybody who is rowdy or disorderly. That should be done but many people are aggressive or rowdy without alcohol. Similarly, many people are perfectly behaved while drinking.
If the ban was in place due to the smell then anything smelly should be banned.
I appreciate that you don't like the smell of beer. I don't like strong perfume but I put up with it because some people like it. I am willing to be annoyed in order to be tolerant.

You have to put up with the smell of perfume because there is nothing you can do about it, other than move, so you have the choice of tolerating it or moving away from the smell (unless you are happy to confront and don't mind being told to eff-off, or worse). Same with smelly food, or noisy children. I don't think anyone is suggesting alcohol is banned because of the smell, merely that it is an additional minor nuisance on top of the tendency of certain individuals to inflict costs on others because they are incapable of judging when they should stop drinking. The ideal solution is to clamp down on the antisocial people, drunk or not, which doesn't penalise those who like a drink on the move and are capable of knowing their limits and behaving respectably. In practice, this requires staff to approach and restrain those antisocial individuals, and how many staff are willing to put themselves in danger to do this?

 

[geoffk]

Just ScotRail. You can still have a wee dram before bed on the Sleeper.

I'm going to be really awkward now and ask if you can have a drink on the 21.12 Carlisle - Glasgow Scotrail service, provided you finish it by Gretna Junction.

 

[Esker-pades]

I'm going to be really awkward now and ask if you can have a drink on the 21.12 Carlisle - Glasgow Scotrail service, provided you finish it by Gretna Junction.

..No..

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm going to be really awkward now and ask if you can have a drink on the 21.12 Carlisle - Glasgow Scotrail service, provided you finish it by Gretna Junction.

No, the ban applies to all ScotRail services wherever they are. It does not apply to any other TOC, so you can get yourself as merry as you wish on CS, VTWC, VTEC and XC.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Just ScotRail. You can still have a wee dram before bed on the Sleeper.

I believe that the Sleeper was explicitly excluded from this policy when it was ScotRail operated.

 

[Scotty]

Could you tell me which three Birmingham grounds are being referred to please?

I am only aware of 2: Villa Park (Aston Villa) and St Andrews (the dirty Bluenoses). As a side note, I am originally from the West Midlands.

West Brom...?

 

[LowLevel]

The Nottingham to Worksop trains have been dry trains for years on a Friday and Saturday night. Security staff backed up by a number of BTP officers monitor boarding, any one turning up with alcohol has it confiscated (including sealed containers) and if anything appears from bags once on board the passengers are at best removed or if they're not compliant arrested.

It most definitely is enforced and any one kicking off about it is left in no doubt that their custom is not required by being removed from the station, physically if required, and again if they're aggressive about it they're arrested. Happens every week.

 

[AlterEgo]

West Brom...?

West Bromwich isn’t in Birmingham.

 

[farleigh]

The Nottingham to Worksop trains have been dry trains for years on a Friday and Saturday night. Security staff backed up by a number of BTP officers monitor boarding, any one turning up with alcohol has it confiscated (including sealed containers) and if anything appears from bags once on board the passengers are at best removed or if they're not compliant arrested.

It most definitely is enforced and any one kicking off about it is left in no doubt that their custom is not required by being removed from the station, physically if required, and again if they're aggressive about it they're arrested. Happens every week.

Nice to hear that the railway does not always behave like customers are scum. Oh hang on a minute.....

 

[bussnapperwm]

West Bromwich isn’t in Birmingham.

It's in the greater Birmingham area (plus if my geography is correct, West Bromwich FC is the Birmingham side of the M6).

Plus it's near enough to the city boundary that it may as well be in Birmingham.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's in the greater Birmingham area (plus if my geography is correct, West Bromwich FC is the Birmingham side of the M6).

Plus it's near enough to the city boundary that it may as well be in Birmingham.

West Bromwich is in Sandwell, which describes itself as "a metropolitan borough in the Black Country". It's definitely not in Birmingham though it is in the West Midlands conurbation which includes Wolverhampton.

 

[Skymonster]

It seems to me that the railway is dismally failing in its duty to provide "reasonable notice" of dry trains (as is required by the bylaws) to innocent customers who are not regular users of problem trains, are not intoxicated, and may be carrying closed alcohol containers for innocent reasons (i.e. Not for consumption during the journey).

So it occurs that with more and more examples of dry trains gradually coming out of the woodwork as this debate continues, is there not a case for the industry to have [at the least] a dedicated webpage that lists dry trains - and make country-wide lists available at other locations such a stations where customers buy tickets. Furthermore, surely it should be incumbent on ticket sellers - including TVMs and websites - to make customers aware of such restrictions when they buy tickets for services.

 

[farleigh]

Skymonster is correct IMO

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it isn't already, it should be a "property" in the timetable database, just like "reservations available" and "First Class available" are.