Alcohol not permitted on LNER?!

johntea

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Just booked a LNER Kings Cross to Leeds train for Monday evening and received the following in an email from them

I understand they have certain dry services but ANY service?

Onboard catering available

A limited range of food and drink is now available using contactless payment only from the CafeBar onboard. We are also offering a selection of complimentary refreshments for our First Class customers including soft drinks and snacks. Listen out for further information onboard. Please note, alcohol is not permitted on any LNER trains.
 
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yorksrob

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As a private business[1] they can impose any such restrictions they wish.

[1] Wholly owned by the Government of course, but that doesn't matter.
It was the case as a nationalised business as well.

(Not that I'm a great fan of this particular power :lol:)
 

Surreytraveller

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As a private business[1] they can impose any such restrictions they wish.

[1] Wholly owned by the Government of course, but that doesn't matter.
Can they impose any such restrictions as they wish? Would it be in the byelaws they can do so, for example? Wouldn't the byelaws restrict how such powers can be used?
 

alistairlees

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Can they impose any such restrictions as they wish? Would it be in the byelaws they can do so, for example? Wouldn't the byelaws restrict how such powers can be used?
Before COVID-19 there were already plenty of 'dry' trains, both permanently and for events (like York Races). This is no different.
 

Bletchleyite

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Can they impose any such restrictions as they wish? Would it be in the byelaws they can do so, for example? Wouldn't the byelaws restrict how such powers can be used?
I would say yes, unless it breached their franchise agreement.

However, the Byelaws already allow for the designation of dry trains, they've just designated all of them.
 

221129

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Exactly what powers do they have to dictate these rules?
Bylaw 4.2.

(2) Where reasonable notice is, or has been, given prohibiting intoxicating liquor on any train service, no person shall have any intoxicating liquor with him on it, or attempt to enter such a train with intoxicating liquor with him.
 

Surreytraveller

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Bylaw 4.2.

(2) Where reasonable notice is, or has been, given prohibiting intoxicating liquor on any train service, no person shall have any intoxicating liquor with him on it, or attempt to enter such a train with intoxicating liquor with him.
What if you've been shopping and are taking it home?
 

yorkie

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Can they impose any such restrictions as they wish? Would it be in the byelaws they can do so, for example? Wouldn't the byelaws restrict how such powers can be used?
The Byelaws give them this power and do not restrict how much they can use this power
4. Intoxication and possession of intoxicating liquor

  1. no person shall enter or remain on the railway where such person is unfit to enter or remain on the railway as a result of being in a state of intoxication
  2. where reasonable notice is, or has been, given prohibiting intoxicating liquor on any train service, no person shall have any intoxicating liquor with him on it, or attempt to enter such a train with intoxicating liquor with him
  3. where an authorised person reasonably believes that any person is unfit to enter or remain on the railway, or has with him intoxicating liquor contrary to byelaw 4(2), an authorised person may:
    1. require him to leave the railway
    2. prevent him entering or remaining on the railway until an authorised person is satisfied that he has no intoxicating liquor with him and/or is no longer in an unfit condition
If you are unhappy with the decision, you can submit an FOI request seeking information regarding why they made the decision and whether they consulted any other bodies (such as the DfT, Transport Focus etc)
What if you've been shopping and are taking it home?
This is not allowed, however in practice they are extremely unlikely to ask the police to search you, so you'd almost certainly get away with it.
 

sjoh

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Seriously, why is this such a big deal? We've managed without pubs for nearly 3 months. Are we so desperate for a dribble of the juice as to get peeved about not being able to drink on a train? Yeah, fine, it's a bit inconvenient - but it's a temporary measure, and it really isn't all that big a deal....
 

Crewe Exile

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Seriously, why is this such a big deal? We've managed without pubs for nearly 3 months. Are we so desperate for a dribble of the juice as to get peeved about not being able to drink on a train? Yeah, fine, it's a bit inconvenient - but it's a temporary measure, and it really isn't all that big a deal....
But is it a ‘temporary measure’ ?...Will this be the ‘new normal’ (the worlds most sickening phrase) going forward?. A complete alcohol ban seems over the top.
 

sjoh

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Indeed. Slippery slope potentially.
Oh come on - this is the exact same argument used against face masks, contact tracing etc. There's no real benefit to it becoming permanent - trying to enforce it is a pain in the backside as it is and I doubt LNER have any wish to create themselves more work for no real gain.
 

yorksrob

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Oh come on - this is the exact same argument used against face masks, contact tracing etc. There's no real benefit to it becoming permanent - trying to enforce it is a pain in the backside as it is and I doubt LNER have any wish to create themselves more work for no real gain.
The difference is, the prevalence of dry trains has been creeping up long before COVID. And we've gone from particular trains to whole routes/days etc.
 

rg177

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I'm currently in York and will be hopping on an LNER back to Newcastle in about 90 minutes. I'm a bit torn about the policy really as it's a lovely sunny day and I'd like to have myself a can on the train home.

On the other hand, I've had many, many horrendous experiences on Fri/Sat nights on trains going via York that I can understand the caution with it as it used to be barely possible to travel without getting surrounded by a gaggle of heavily intoxicated individuals never mind keeping your distance from them.

Of course on most other journeys on other days I can't see why having a drink on the train is too much of an issue. But of course some people would ruin it for the rest of us..

In lieu I'm just having a nice can of pale ale by the Ouse!
 

Ianno87

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Was on LNER on Monday with the bloke opposite nursing a can of Fosters.

Train staff passed repeatedly and didn't say a word to him.
 

Huntergreed

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Is this an effective permanent solution? Absolutely not, as this would render many of the late night Friday/Saturday night trains useless if people can’t use them to come back from a night out.

For the meantime though, as things are now, I don’t think it’s a huge problem (a drunk passenger may make people feel less “safe” and understandably TOC’s want to avoid this)
 

johntea

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No ‘in your face’ announcements regarding this that I could see at Kings Cross and no mention of any such rule by the guard so I’ve been a rebel and cracked open a can

I need it for the prospect of having a wait at Wakefield Kirkgate post 11pm for my connection :D

What LNER seem *really* keen on is telling you to sit at your allocated reservation seat as apparently they have been allocated based on social distancing...nope I’ll just sit at this nice table seat in this virtually empty coach instead thanks
 

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