All Line Rover Restrictions

[Amaranthe]

I'm looking at doing an ALR trip in the summer and want to check a couple of things.

I'm aware there are M-F restrictions on "boarding/alighting" at certain stations before 10am with some Train Operating Company's but want to double check a few things would be allowed...

1) 0500 Durham - Kings Cross but alighting at Peterborough (LNER)
2) 0637 Durham - Oxford (continues to Reading but calls Birmingham New Street at 0928) (Cross Country)

And a theoretical question, how would gate staff at a particular station know what Train Operating Company's you have arrived on if you alighted at one of the affected stations before 10am?

And will onboard staff understand if I want to alight before or pass through an affected station before 10am if their train serves an affected station before that time?

 

[WF4HA5HE]

How I read into this is exactly as you do, aslong as your aren't boarding or alighting specifically at those stations I would say those journeys are fine. I think the reason for those restrictions is to stop people from commuting too work to those major stations and using the all line rail rover as a season ticket which obviously would be way way more expensive then a rover. But that's just how I read the restrictions I may be wrong.

 

[nightall]

Passing through or a train calling later at a restricted station is OK as long as you don't board or alight before the specified time. For instance we passed through new street before 9am on an XC service last year using an ALR without issue

 

[Hadders]

I'm looking at doing an ALR trip in the summer and want to check a couple of things.

I'm aware there are M-F restrictions on "boarding/alighting" at certain stations before 10am with some TOCs but want to double check a few things would be allowed...

1) 0500 DHM - KCX but alighting at PBO (LNER)
2) 0637 DHM - OXF (continues to RDG but calls BHM at 0928) (XC)

And a theoretical question, how would gate staff at a particular station know what TOC you have arrived on if you alighted at one of the affected stations before 10am?

And will onboard staff understand if I want to alight before or pass through an affected station before 10am if their train serves an affected station before that time?

Please can you edit your post to include the full station names as per our forum rules.

 

[Amaranthe]

Please can you edit your post to include the full station names as per our forum rules.

Sorry changed now.

 

[Hadders]

Sorry changed now.

Thanks!

What you want to do is fine. There are restrictions on boarding or alighting at certain stations before 10:00 on weekdays, but Durham, Peterborough and Oxford aren’t on the list of restricted stations.

 

[Amaranthe]

Thanks!

What you want to do is fine. There are restrictions on boarding or alighting at certain stations before 10:00 on weekdays, but Durham, Peterborough and Oxford aren’t on the list of restricted stations.

Thanks that's what I thought.

Am I also correct in thinking that alighting a Cross Country service at New Street at 0928 and joining say a 0943 West Midlands Trains service to Redditch wouldn't be allowed even if I didn't pass through any gate barriers?

 

[Hadders]

Thanks that's what I thought.

Am I also correct in thinking that alighting a Cross Country service at New Street at 0928 and joining say a 0943 West Midlands Trains service to Redditch wouldn't be allowed even if I didn't pass through any gate barriers?

That’s correct. You’re not allowed to alight a CrossCountry train at Birmingham New Street before 10:00 on weekdays.

Depending on the calling pattern of the train you could change at somewhere like Wolverhampton, Birmingham International, Coventry etc.

 

[Amaranthe]

That’s correct. You’re not allowed to alight a CrossCountry train at Birmingham New Street before 10:00 on weekdays.

Depending on the calling pattern of the train you could change at somewhere like Wolverhampton, Birmingham International, Coventry etc.

I understand why they have the restriction but is it not badly worded?

Instead of...

The All Line Rail Rover is NOT valid for boarding or alighting train services operated by Avanti West Coast, CrossCountry, East Midlands Railway, or LNER before 10:00 Mondays to Fridays at the following stations:

Would something like...

The All Line Rail Rover is NOT valid for entering or leaving the station on train services wholly operated by Avanti West Coast, CrossCountry, East Midlands Railway, or LNER before 10:00 Mondays to Fridays at the following stations:

not be better?

At the end of the day capacity on that train is going to be the same whether one alights at New Street or just passes through it right?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I understand why they have the restriction but is it not badly worded?

Instead of...

The All Line Rail Rover is NOT valid for boarding or alighting train services operated by Avanti West Coast, CrossCountry, East Midlands Railway, or LNER before 10:00 Mondays to Fridays at the following stations:

Would something like...

The All Line Rail Rover is NOT valid for entering or leaving the station on train services wholly operated by Avanti West Coast, CrossCountry, East Midlands Railway, or LNER before 10:00 Mondays to Fridays at the following stations:

not be better?

At the end of the day capacity on that train is going to be the same whether one alights at New Street or just passes through it right?

No, because it's not intended to stop people passing through the stations - only to stop them getting on or off specific trains at those specific stations.

Barring any use of those trains for passing through the stations would render the ticket virtually worthless.

 

[Amaranthe]

No, because it's not intended to stop people passing through the stations - only to stop them getting on or off specific trains at those specific stations.

I don't see the logic though?

Why does it matter if I change trains at New Street at 0928 onto a service I am allowed to board before 10am rather than staying on the same train to its next destination?

 

[John R]

That’s correct. You’re not allowed to alight a CrossCountry train at Birmingham New Street before 10:00 on weekdays.

Depending on the calling pattern of the train you could change at somewhere like Wolverhampton, Birmingham International, Coventry etc.

I presume you could also buy a single from the previous calling point to New St?

 

[Amaranthe]

I presume you could also buy a single from the previous calling point to New St?

That would be Derby in my theoretical example. But why though if you've already spent £1,400 on a ticket?

As I said earlier I can see why they have the rule in place but just think it isn't thought out/worded in the best way but maybe that's just me?

I guess my suggestion would be to not allow it in or out of the barriers at those stations before 10am but to allow the change of trains without going through the barriers.

I know that's not 100% foolproof either but maybe better than it is now?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Most staff don't care if you're clearly not using it as a season and using it as a leisure product.
On an Avanti train the TM was very friendly and asked where I was off to, I said London, but changing at Rugby onto LNWR as the Avanti arrived pre 10am. He said "it's fine, stay on here"
Obviously, don't do it without permission! But if you're within the rules they really won't have an issue

 

[eastwestdivide]

my suggestion would be to not allow it in or out of the barriers at those stations before 10am…

As a footnote, the all line rover I used last year didn’t work a single barrier regardless of time of day!

 

[Jan Mayen]

Mine worked Plymouth yesterday!

 

[John R]

Most staff don't care if you're clearly not using it as a season and using it as a leisure product.
On an Avanti train the TM was very friendly and asked where I was off to, I said London, but changing at Rugby onto LNWR as the Avanti arrived pre 10am. He said "it's fine, stay on here"
Obviously, don't do it without permission! But if you're within the rules they really won't have an issue

I’m not sure I would have risked a discussion with barrier staff at Euston though in that situation.

I would presume though that boarding at a London terminus would be much more problematic, as barrier staff there are likely to be much less cooperative? And even if they are, you still run the risk of on train crew enforcing the rules, with both this and the above situation relying on “but I was told it was ok” being accepted.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I’m not sure I would have risked a discussion with barrier staff at Euston though in that situation.

I would presume though that boarding at a London terminus would be much more problematic, as barrier staff there are likely to be much less cooperative? And even if they are, you still run the risk of on train crew enforcing the rules, with both this and the above situation relying on “but I was told it was ok” being accepted.

Fair point. There's a lot of difference between being on a train, saying you're getting off it to abide by the rules, and being told it's okay to stay on by the TM, rather than trying to get through a barrier when you shouldn't.

 

[spyinthesky]

Some years ago I did alight and exit Milton Keynes off an early Manchester-Euston not realising this was included in the pre 10am list
The gateline staff were checking tickets but I had no problem out or back in.

 

[Haywain]

I’m not sure I would have risked a discussion with barrier staff at Euston though in that situation.

I'd be astonished if there was a ticket check on arrival at Euston.

 

[John R]

I'd be astonished if there was a ticket check on arrival at Euston.

That’s fine if you know that’s likely to be the case. But if you’re not a regular user of Euston, you won’t necessarily (and I wouldn’t, and would base my experience on Paddington, where barrier checks on arrival are the norm).

 

[Starmill]

I don't see the logic though?

Why does it matter if I change trains at New Street at 0928 onto a service I am allowed to board before 10am rather than staying on the same train to its next destination?

I wouldn't bother looking for the logic. It's something that is what it is for historical reasons and there's so few tickets sold it's not worth the effort of changing, not because it's actually good for anyone that it's the way it is!

As long as you're within the restrictions as they're written at the time you buy your ticket, as you would be in these cases, you're all sorted.

 

[Watershed]

I'd be astonished if there was a ticket check on arrival at Euston.

They do happen, although only rarely. The most frustating thing is when a departure is delayed to allow both inbound and outbound passengers to have their tickets checked to the Nth degree!